Help with building your Speeduino, installing it, getting it to run etc.
#66563
The suggested changes by MLV VEA are to correct toward the AFR Table value you set - not right to it. If it sees richer running than the target at a particular point, it looks at the O2 value and the PW used, and adjusts the suggested VE to shift fueling toward the target AFR.

Note the Cell Change level (Easy, Normal, Hard, Very Hard) are incremental step size toward the AFR target value. So, if set for Normal, it will only suggest a portion of the full correction required, in order to avoid over-correction. Smart! Part of the suggested new value is based upon how many "hits" the cell received in the log. A few hits, not much change. Many hits, more aggressive change with more data supporting the change. After multiple logs and VEA everywhere, followed by predictive table smoothing, you can turn on O2 corrections and verify everywhere runs at your targets. :D

This is why we configure our driving for the specific area we are auto-adjusting with VEA, so we get as many hits as possible in the log, in that area. We also (when possible) sustain the specific cell as steady as-possible, as log sections where accel and other fuel "add-ons" appear are ignored. Steady and deliberate driving, not zinging all over. This also helps to avoid larger errors if the Lambda Delay Table is not perfect. ;)

So again, if you only have hard acceleration, you won't get many useful hits after the cells with AE (affecting resulting AFR) are filtered out automatically. Likewise, this is why you would set minimum VEA temperature where your warmup is no longer active. An example of creative driving could be wanting to log high load at low RPM. Instead of hitting the throttle (those hits will be filtered out with AE), try stuff like slowing in-gear as low as possible, then begin dragging a brake while adding a bit of throttle, maintaining RPM. Juggle more brake and more throttle. On a hill is even better. This will get you logs that cover more of the un-adjusted area for VEA.

The takeaway - the important points here are 1) to bring the VE Table to run at the AFR Target table values you set. Until you get more experience, you need a consistent basis of fueling, limiting your ability to try new fueling to check improvements. Running all over the tables with creative diving to get everything pulled to your current AFR targets with your current settings should be your primary focus right now. 2) Reading while relaxing by the fire about other stuff is fine, but when on the bike and for now - use your current settings to stabilize the entire table, then begin your tuning program to find best values. IMPORTANT - if you mess with settings, modes, or other things now, you will delay the stabilization of your current tune by corrupting the current operation. Do NOT mess with it. Get the tables solid as-is. Go from there with your new data. 8-)

As @LPG2CV mentioned, do not worry about running out of MAP and other concerns. You will see how that resolves as you continue the process. Don't try to out-guess it now, and your best teacher is following the process. BTW - misfire is seen in one or several data streams, such as a spike in AFR (leaner with misfire), spike in MAP, and sharp decel spike in rpm/s with the sudden unload on the crank, etc. Don't forget misfires can be light or partial, and not big events, and you need to be able to 'see' them. I always have rpm/s running a trace to see stuff like that.
#66583
Thanks for the comment(s). @PSIG mentions that you adjust the VE table cell values to meet the AFR table cell values that I have set. I am using the base AFR table setup where above 60 Kpa all cell values are at 13.0, below this the cell values are 14.0. I found a reference where the AFR table cell values for wasted spark and sequential fuel injection are not the same, can be, but mentioned that for wasted spark use richer AFR table cell values such as 13.5 or so, for sequential aim for 14.7.

Lots of corroborating information to drive as close as possible each road trial to get as many hits as possible for the specific scenario.

Another tidbit is about the colour of the various TS tables, would be nice if this applies to TS for Speeduino:

"My understanding of cell weighting is basically the amount of times and time spent in those cells, the more time spent in a cell the better VEAL can work out the correct change. As for the colour of the cell weighting it would be the same as the above(if I got it right), so the darker green means more time in those cells or more weight!

The colours for cell change are black is original, blue is increased value(richer) and red is decreased value(leaner). Again the darker the colour means the more that cell has changed. You can also hover over changed cells to see what their original values ."

First road tuning issue, AFR table update.
Second, same road trial course at posted speed limits and using gears as appropriate.
Third, same as second, but when on highway, use lower gears for same highway speeds.
Fourth, riding in lower RPMS and potentially "bogging" engine.

Mentioned in another post about a "gurgling/engine popping" sound. Doing a bit of reading and this appears to be the start of engine misfires, interesting - makes sense.
#66585
Rednaxs60 wrote: Thu Jan 04, 2024 4:24 am I found a reference where the AFR table cell values for wasted spark and sequential fuel injection are not the same, can be, but mentioned that for wasted spark use richer AFR table cell values such as 13.5 or so, for sequential aim for 14.7.
The effect may be true for some engines, injector placement, end-point timing and 101 other factors. There. That was me being understanding and nice. ;)

However, and as much as I try to be positive and diplomatic, "aiming" for an AFR totally violates diagnostic tuning principles. We never do that. I've said this untold times before, and am saying it again. Please follow this. We only aim for best engine data showing best efficiency. By the way, and after you find best operation; that will produce a certain AFR at a certain load and speed for later reference. So, last time, we do not tune to AFRs - we tune to find the AFRs to use.

Note I am not saying this is the only way, or even the best way. I am saying that you cannot mix principles and practices unless you want garbage soup. Follow their guidelines, or follow these, but do not mix them. "I read somewhere" means you will be absorbing and involving different principles and methods, which will eventually lead to frustration and disappointment. Do you understand what I am saying?

Rednaxs60 wrote: Thu Jan 04, 2024 4:24 amMentioned in another post about a "gurgling/engine popping" sound. Doing a bit of reading and this appears to be the start of engine misfires, interesting - makes sense.
Then you should be able to prove it with data. Look at those areas in MLV. Dragging the log area of gurgling back and forth with the mouse will show both the traces and the little gauges reacting.

What is reacting? Why is it reacting that way? Is O2 doing something different? How about MAP? The rpm/s data should be jiggling along without spikes all the time... is it? What changes in data, and does that data indicate misfire onset?

Yes, you can do this on-purpose to learn. Do something simple (one thing) to the tune to screw it up. Seriously. Don't worry, as you have the tune saved and can go back in a couple clicks, right? So jack a dozen cells at cruise by 50%, save the tune under a different test name like "Jack Cruise 50.msq" :lol:, then go drive it so it hits those cells. Come back and look at the logs to see how the data reacts. Or, park it at idle, and reduce VE in the area until it runs worse, then enrich until it runs worse. Where in the logs did it run best? What data indicated that? ;)
#66587
You have it a little backwards Earnest. :) You need to give the engine what it wants when tuning. When it is tuned, is when the AFR table comes into play.

As @PSIG is saying, you alter the VE table (and advance) as required to tune the engine. From the logs you take, you can deduce the best AFR values to enter into the AFR table. Then when the engine is tuned, and the AFR populated with the correct values, you turn on O2 correction. This will then keep the engine running at the correct AFR, with respect to variations in the mix and quality of fuel being used.

Though one does haave to appreciate that you are riding and tuning a motorcycle. Tuning a car is a little easier as you can have a knowlegable passenger, riding with you. As you control the car, they can change settings and read readouts, as well as feel the engines response.

Best approach to take, is from the bottom up, tuning small areas at a time. Once you have an area tuned to your satisfaction, then lock those cells, and update the values in the AFR table.

Happy tuning :)
#66589
Thanks for the comments and not being PC. I get it. VE, ignition then over to AFR. AFR is adjusted to allow for better tuning of VE and ignition, not the other way round. However, my mention was about the AFR table as installed:
4 Jan 2024 - ECU AFR Table.jpg
4 Jan 2024 - ECU AFR Table.jpg (97.67 KiB) Viewed 2459 times
Have to start somewhere.
#66592
Rednaxs60 wrote: Thu Jan 04, 2024 3:39 pm Have to start somewhere.
Yes, it has to run in order to begin tuning for best values. The default table does that for most initial startups and first-runs. It 'works', and should allow starting, warmup, and (once VE is relatively stable at targets) a base to begin tuning. An AFR Table generator only takes similar guesses to get you going - not best or even good values. You're fine with what you have, as you don't have special considerations for general initial AFRs, and they will all change with tuning. You're good, and I see you are learning your tools quickly. Keep going and begin your diagnostic tuning! 8-)
#66596
Thanks for the comments. Decided to use the AFR generator, had to adjust the X-Y axis to be the same as the VE and ignition tables. This is a small adjustment, but again all tables should use the same load and RPM values. As mentioned Speeduino does not like inconsistencies. Adjusted the engine idle to approximately 1050 RPM, smoothing out nicely. TPS indicates a 1% open at idle, will calibrate before I go out. Gong to do some riding this afternoon and get a couple of logs to compare and analyze. This is the exciting part, but I do hate crunching numbers and such. Looks like a good three day stretch of good weather coming up.
#66598
Three road tests today. Went fairly well. Kept to the routes as planned. Have perused the data, and find that the traces follow the VE table fairly well. This indicates to me that the VE table cell values need to be smoothed out. Also notice that the engine operates better when the Lambda/AFR readings are above say 13.0 on the AFR reading. Not tuning to the AFR table, but the readings assist in my understanding of the data collected. I will be adjusting the VE table cell values for specific RPM and load readings. Here are the three data logs and current tune:
(1.17 MiB) Downloaded 195 times
#66768
Weather is not cooperating. Did have to get the snowblower out to clean some driveways.

Going to bring in the ECU and look at the tune. Learning to use KiCad is not the easiest. As has been mentioned pick an application and go with it.

Making specific symbols for my project. Modifying symbols from the native libraries and storing in a global project library. Takes a bit of time to do each one. Wiring should be a bit simpler.

Using a computer microprocessor for the pin layout, and modifying it for the number of pins and nomenclature. Get the CFI system schematic done and maybe move on to something more challenging, not that this isn't.

Once the CFI system schematic is finished, going to address the wiring schematic for the projects I've done since I bought the bike.

Cheers
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