Help with building your Speeduino, installing it, getting it to run etc.
#70218
@PSIG - Thanks for the reply.

Have another question for the collective. Using 36-1 crank trigger wheel in dual wheel mode. Have been searching this forum to determine what the effect would be. The 75 mm 36-1 crank trigger wheel makes a good crank timing indicator.
#70219
@PSIG - Thanks for the reply. Have the 2N5551 transistor on order.

Question: have been searching this forum for information using a 36-1 crank trigger wheel in a dual wheel configuration. Know it is possible. This trigger wheel is also good as an engine crank timing indicator, every individual valley and tooth is 10 degrees on timing. Wondering how the missing tooth affects the signal to the ECU. Using a Hall Effect crank sensor.
#70220
Found a thread: UNABLE TO USE SEQUENTIAL MODE WITH CAM SIGNAL INPUT Post #26578 by @PSIG that explains my question (I think).

I know where #1 TDC is as well as idle timing of 11 degrees BTDC. Should be able to estimate trigger angle and dial in with timing light. Expect the trigger angle I now have should be close (?). Since I know exactly where #1 TDC is, and idle timing should be able to do this the old fashioned way as well, connect everything and adjust trigger angle as necessary.

Another reason for changing crank trigger wheel is the OEM is an 8 tooth (no missing tooth). Resolution from a 36-1 missing tooth crank trigger wheel may be advantageous. It should work when engine timing is set.
#70231
Issue of the missing tooth trigger wheel in a dual wheel mode solved. Found more forum posts and understand what would happen. I've taken the missing tooth out of the equation, welded a tooth in the missing tooth spot, now have a 36 tooth trigger wheel that I will install. Will do a tooth log when I get going - should be fine. Project is ever evolving.
#70248
Not sure what the issue was? Many have run 36-1/1 fine. Note that I did not set as Dual Wheel, but Missing Tooth, where it passively looks for a cycle "cam" signal for cycle phase. Related trivia; this is why when running crank-only missing tooth, I always tie the unused cam signal input high or low in order to prevent false 'cam' signal triggering by a floating input.
#70270
PSIG wrote: Thu Dec 12, 2024 8:03 pm Not sure what the issue was? Many have run 36-1/1 fine. Note that I did not set as Dual Wheel, but Missing Tooth, where it passively looks for a cycle "cam" signal for cycle phase. Related trivia; this is why when running crank-only missing tooth, I always tie the unused cam signal input high or low in order to prevent false 'cam' signal triggering by a floating input.
Not an issue, just a learning point, my setup is 36/1. Found more forum threads/posts regarding using a missing tooth in dual wheel mode - understand the effect of a missing tooth trigger wheel in a dual wheel setup. Engine/ECU sync nicely.

Thought the trigger angle would not change significantly changing to a 36 tooth trigger wheel from an 8 tooth trigger wheel. Marked the new trigger wheel for #1 TDC and base/initial timing of 11 degrees BTDC. Had to adjust the trigger angle some 40 points.

Doing the math, there is 45 degrees between each tooth on the 8 tooth trigger wheel, whereas there is 10 degrees between each tooth on the 36 tooth trigger wheel (one tooth and one valley). It was interesting to see with the timing light.

Cheers
#70279
The installation of the O2 sensor is being questioned (by myself). It is located in the right side exhaust manifold. Works well in this position but does not take into account how the left side of the engine is operating. I have thought about this and think there are two options to consider.

Option 1 - relocate the O2 sensor to the crossover muffler that is in front of the rear wheel. Don't know how much mixing of the exhaust gases is done in the muffler.

Option 2 - install a second O2 sensor in the left exhaust manifold, tie the signal into the ECU for data logging - can't use two O2 sensor signals, and compare the O2 readings and smooth the AFR reading to compensate for the second O2 sensor information.

Many of the newer motorcycles have more than one O2 sensor; however, the OEM ECU is designed to accommodate more than one O2 sensor signal, similar to the OEM CFI system camshaft sensors. The ECU was designed to accommodate two camshaft signals.

The O2 sensor is primarily used for emission standards for low powers and at idle. The O2 sensor is used in a closed loop mode for this. A second O2 sensor can be installed in the left side exhaust manifold and the AFR reading can be monitored without having the O2 sensor signal processed by the ECU.

The Speeduino ECU has an individual cylinder fuel trim (ICFT) function that allows the tuner to calibrate the fuel being injected into the engine at specific engine load and RPM scenarios. This function can be used to calibrate and balance the left/right cylinder banks. Another option/consideration.

Comments/thoughts?
#70280
If the plugs in the left side and the right side look the same, then they're more than likely both running the same, in which case you can trust the one o2 sensor position.
If the plugs don't look the same, then fix the problem, then they'll look the same and you can continue with the single sensor.
If you did move the sensor to after the join in the two exhaust sections, you still wouldn't see the differences between the left and the right, just the average of all the cylinders. So you still need something else to help you monitor the condition and performance of each of the cylinders. Which is probably back to regularly checking the spark plugs
#70282
Thanks for the reply. I do monitor the spark plugs, destroy a few in the process. I am curious about the difference between the left and right cylinder banks. I don't think it's an issue, but it would be a good follow on update to the project.
#70303
I can't answer specifically, as I do not know your project goals, nor how you are applying O2 data to it specifically. +1 @jonbill, as the O2 sensor is a spot-check of relative values. Look at it this way - there is no reason for different cylinders on the same engine to be running substantially differently, unless something is wrong. This makes additional O2 bank sensors failure indicators for common applications, not usually tuning or operating sensors.

Other issues exist, such as which sensor has authority? If one reads differently, do we lean for the rich reading? Enrich for the lean one? Is the anomaly a misfire? A failing sensor? Are we helping or making it worse? This is why most systems watch one sensor. If it's working correctly, it is reasonably representative of all cylinders.

But they use per-cylinder O2 in high-$ racing! Yes, and each cylinder runs fine for common uses, but they are looking to squeeze every drop of control and efficiency out of each individual cylinder. The last percent. Different goals. But the use is the same as a failure indicator, of one cylinder failing to operate at the precise Lambda previously determined to be optimal for that condition, relative to others. This is an important perspective, as knowing one should know them all, yes?

Much as every intake port is slightly different in the engine, so is every injector, every exhaust port, each cylinder head temperature, every intake runner, every exhaust header path, etc. This is where special applications can use per-cylinder tuning (some control enabled by sequential) for hair-splitting efficiency. That is not 99% of users, but extremely valuable to those that can really make use of it to reach their goals.

Think of why you want more than one O2 (or other per-cylinder/bank relative readings, such as EGT), and what that could or would accomplish. Does it really get you anything you can use? Exactly what does that info get you? Is the info valid, or simple production variation in values? How do you know? And how would you use the info if it is valid? Does that chain result in reaching a goal? Ah, back to the first question in any project - what are the goals?

In-conclusion, spark plug reading is a skill but simply comparing spark plugs for anomalies is appropriate for most applications, in order to ensure there is nothing markedly wrong. Failure indicators. If your needs are more specific, or if you have the ability to use O2 data for diagnostics, that's a different scenario. Your project, your goals, and your call. Hope that helps.
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