[JohnB]

Hello. I'm looking forward to see your project completed.

But why don't you consider getting an intake manifold and throttle body from a c14se-c16se or from a daewoo lanos a13-a15sms to convert it to mpi?

They're dirt cheap and TBI is long outdated to get any benefit on especially on an 1.6 engine, and not only that but it will sort many issues regarding Speeduino and have a lot more potential.

I'm not exactly sure how or how good the Speeduino would work as a piggyback but since you have it, it'll be better to take the full advantage of it in my opinion.

[PSIG]

They're dirt cheap and TBI is long outdated to get any benefit on especially on an 1.6 engine, and not only that but it will sort many issues regarding Speeduino and have a lot more potential.

The forums are more of a learning platform for concepts than blunt answers, so users can apply concepts to any project. To be most helpful, please specify the lack of benefits, or the many issues regarding Speeduino, or why the 1.6 engine specifically, so he knows what problems he's solving and the potential available towards his project goals. You can't make gains if you don't know the hurdles to jump, or why you should. We are all leaning here (or hope to be).

[JohnB]

You're right, but since the forum isn't about engine building, as much as i hate blunt answers, i thought it'll be better to inform the OP about my concerns while keeping it short to avoid potentially going off-topic.

I have the same engine (GM Family 1) and it's the engine i've built the most.

I do not know the expectations of this project, like if the owner is going after performance or whatever else.

But this engine was originally a TBI in the late 80's, the latest version in Astra G (which shouldn't exist) is severely de-tuned and low revving due to fueling and intake limitations by design, blasting 75hp @ 5200rpm which is the same peak power as A13SMS or 1.349L version of the same engine with MPI, and 25hp less than C16SE which is the basic MPI version of the same engine.

So at the time he is going the Speeduino route which enables him do anything he wants, i would assume it'll be a good suggestion to consider turning the engine into its modern form.

A lot more flexible fueling system giving the ability to tune the engine further, and quite some ceiling to performance tune it in its stock form since with tuning that engine increases its peak power by as much as 10hp over the stock 100hp figure, also the benefit of a proper MPI intake to deliver exactly the amount of air and fuel you want to the cylinders as opposed to TBI,etc.

As to why specifically the 1.6, because it lacks displacement to cope performance wise with the de-tuning of it being a TBI, the same does not apply to let's say a 5.7 V8 TBI that is already able to do wonders and it will not get any benefit from an extra 10hp or the lack of.

BTW those are engine related issues to be fair, but this discomfort translates into tuning trouble if he expects to accomplish something wow-ish with a Speeduino piggyback - standalone on this engine in its current form.

[lovosal]

Hello and thank you for taking an interest in my topic.
To answer your questions I will try to be as clear and brief as possible.
The answer is easy for me.
Part of two slopes.
1st
It is that unfortunately the modifications here in Spain at that level, or are very complicated to get the ITV to accept them and if it accepted them, it would cause many problems, it would require a lot of documentation and the opening of a project by means of an engineer who, apart from Being very expensive, it doesn't let me do what I need, which would be just the intake + injection system + control unit and wiring of a z16se.
They, among many other things, require mounting the complete engine of the donor vehicle, which is not needed.
2nd
This engine already goes with engine modifications made by me, (it is worth saying that everyone has told me that what I do is impossible or practically useless, that it is a waste of money badly invested to get nothing). Due to these modifications that I will list later, the original ECU is not capable of controlling all these changes, with the consequent malfunction of the engine. I know all this because after spending a lot of money on switchboard or chiptuner tuners who said they could do it and after leaving the vehicle for a long time at their facilities they were not able or did not want to or knew how to do it, but pay, I had to pay them for their "work done" believe me when I say it wasn't just 2 or 3.
Apart from the fact that I think that the vehicle can look good, fine and stable at idle and a considerable improvement, not only because of the speeduino control unit, but also because of what the engine has already done with modifications. That is why I also do it, to be able to adjust it more effectively, since my original ECU cannot.

The fact of leaving the two switchboards is simple in my case. I need the car to continue to have the comforts and benefits of various things that speeduino cannot control, such as: air conditioning, power steering, anti-theft immobilizer, central locking, electric windows, etc. In my case and if I remember correctly, everything is in a single control unit and it is the same as the one that controls the engine, at least the air conditioning, the power steering and the anti-theft immobilizer.
I know very well that the benefits of this engine with what it has from the factory are very limited when it comes to getting more power, but I know that it can be achieved. The modifications made by me in the engine are the following:
Cylinder head porting maintaining the original diameter of the ducts, change in the angle of the intake valve seats to facilitate the entry of fuel, mirror polishing of the exhaust ducts to improve the evacuation of exhaust gases, bundled 100-grain intake ducts, to facilitate the mixing of air and gasoline, planning of the cylinder head and mounting of the valves in accordance with the new angle, low-crossing sports camshaft that favors better engine breathing, adjustable pulley for a perfect adjustment of the ignition timing and subsequent modification (by loosening a few screws I can make it advance or retard almost the degrees you need), 4-2-1 exhaust manifolds and not 4-1-1 to favor at all engine speeds and not only at high ones, for which 4-1-1 would be better.
and what most takes me forward with all this is to demonstrate that power can be done and leave it well adjusted and with optimal operation in my vehicle.
Just one more note: The most logical option, and in this case the easiest, is never the most fun, and it is the one with which you learn the least... I also tell you that there have been people who have told me that they had no idea what what I was doing and that it was impossible to do what I have done up to now... for these people, just tell them something: they were right about one thing, and that is that, yes, it has been and continues to be very expensive to do, but Showing them that they are wrong in the most important thing has been priceless. and this is largely why I do it, to learn, to enjoy and have fun and above all to show that I have been able to do it thanks to "crazy people" like me.
Sorry for this great text, but I've gotten a little sentimental. I'm sorry

[lovosal]

They're dirt cheap and TBI is long outdated to get any benefit on especially on an 1.6 engine, and not only that but it will sort many issues regarding Speeduino and have a lot more potential.

The forums are more of a learning platform for concepts than blunt answers, so users can apply concepts to any project. To be most helpful, please specify the lack of benefits, or the many issues regarding Speeduino, or why the 1.6 engine specifically, so he knows what problems he's solving and the potential available towards his project goals. You can't make gains if you don't know the hurdles to jump, or why you should. We are all leaning here (or hope to be).

Thanks to the fact that you are all helping me to solve the problems that arise, the project continues forward and also, I am very excited.
With time it is possible that, if I obtain the necessary knowledge, I will continue modifying my vehicle, (possibility of putting multipoint, but with hardly any changes in the original engine, so that the ITV does not bother me. This is a great challenge too, hehehe.

From here, my most sincere thanks to all those who are devoted and pending my project, and more knowing that there are countless projects more interesting than mine.
thanks really. I hope I can continue counting on you and this fantastic community.

[lovosal]

Excuse me, but I am posting the photos of the modifications of my engine and thus explain more visually one of the reasons why I am doing speeduino.
I hope all this is not a bother.

[lovosal]

The last photos and they are all sent,

[PSIG]

@JohnB - excellent, and thanks for taking the time to fill-in some of the holes, as it will help others building similar engines with similar factory "crippling". It is good to know that this version of the intake manifold is so poor (and other de-tuned parts, I'm sure), as "TBI" in itself is typically not a hindrance to raw power, often being preferred (e.g., F1 engines for many years). All good to know, and thanks for that.

@lovosal - I see part of your project goals are complying with your laws. While the project may seem boring, these projects are often the most challenging and rewarding. Nice head-work! With that level of porting, your intake manifold restriction may be a non-factor. Keep us posted with your progress.

[lovosal]

Hello,
I have some doubt.
Why do you think that the two ECUs won't ask to go well at the same time?
has this ever been done? hasn't been tested? or has it been tried and it goes wrong?
I would like to know your reasons to take it into account when assembling it in case of possible failures.
I have thought about seeing who can have custom-made and customized intake manifolds, because I want to manufacture them to serve me in two ways, that is, I would have to have two options: to pass ITV, that is, air intake, as up to now, through above. (as of origin) and lateral entrance, like the multipoints, later adding the missing pieces, covering the upper hole and opening the lateral ones + the pieces that touch (throttle, etc).
but apart from the fact that it will be expensive, I have not found anyone who makes them good, with good finishes (as from the factory). it's all because of the ITV!!!

[lovosal]

A good resistance works full-range. You know if you have low enough resistance if the latency (dead time) is following specifications. It will be the same at any rpm, but of course different at various voltages. For example, I use 5-ohms with common GM/Holley/Rochester 660cc TBI injectors, and the milliseconds is at-spec ±0.4ms @ 14V. This means I do not need lower resistance, loading the injector and circuits harder with more heat. If the latency was slow or off-spec, then the resistance is too high (amps low).

That said, 3-ohms (5 total for yours) is not stressing a Speeduino injector circuit, so do what makes sense to you and tests well. Perhaps you have very cold starting conditions with low battery voltage sometimes. You may want to add some insurance by using a lower-ohm resistor. Again, make your choice, but test at the low voltage to verify proper function. Have fun!

Another question that appears to me, and that I am not able to find enough information about my injector, and seeing that you have worked a lot with this type of injector, could you help me find the data that I am missing to be able to calculate the injection times and so on?
I got the original reference, but it comes with the complete injection body, not only. the. injector: 17096150
The same thing happens to me with the data of my coil. I can't find them.
I will need them to calculate, among other things, the dwell of the coil.
Thx