[LPG2CV]

I have a better handle on it now

All those pipes and joins need to be solid, to avoid false air getting in.

[Rednaxs60]

@LPG2CV - The only time excess air is needed is when starting or during hard deceleration when the throttle plate(s) are closed. Here's a picture of the air inlet holes on the cylinder side of the throttle plates:

Air Inlet Holes.jpg (156.1 KiB) Viewed 1716 times

Project has slowed down, but not stopped. Going to restart the trials in about two weeks, but have some work to do first to prepare for the second phase. Continuing to read through the various forum threads for information.

Thought about the trigger angle and what it means. Noticed that for the Squirt family the trigger angle is BTDC, Speeduino is ATDC. Have always thought of timing as BTDC, never ATDC.

I then thought about what happens when I change the trigger angle with it being ATDC. The calculated trigger angle for my engine is 260 degrees ATDC - presently at 267 degrees (CW rotation). If I reduce this number say to 240 degrees - rotating the trigger angle CCW, I am in essence advancing the timing an additional 20 degrees. Conversely, changing the trigger angle to say 280 degrees ATDC, I am retarding the timing an additional 20 degrees.

Using this analogy and doing the math, to get a 15 degree advance at idle (ignition timing locked at 15 degrees at start), I should be looking at decreasing the trigger angle towards the 245 degree mark. If this was a trigger angle BTDC, I would expect that reducing the trigger angle would retard the timing (trigger angle moving ATDC), whereas increasing the trigger angle would advance the timing.

I had to refresh my memory regarding this. "If the rotor turns clockwise (my engine turns CW), you'll advance the timing by rotating the distributor counterclockwise, and vice versa. (move the trigger angle CCW (decrease the trigger angle setting) to advance and CW (increase the trigger angle setting) to retard"

Thinking I have been staying on the timing retard side of the equation (increasing trigger setting) instead of on the timing advance side (decreasing trigger setting).

Will be testing this premise when trials restart. Chime in if I'm too far off the mark.

[PSIG]

Thought about the trigger angle and what it means. Noticed that for the Squirt family the trigger angle is BTDC, Speeduino is ATDC. Have always thought of timing as BTDC, never ATDC. … Chime in if I'm too far off the mark.

You are waaaay overthinking this. Trigger Angle has nothing to do with BTC or ATC. It has to do with telling the processor where zero is. That's it. With Speeduino, it can be -360 to +360 (720°), so the correct 0° TDC is identified for compression TDC of #1 cylinder. Follow the directions, set TA so timing is zeroed, the timing table reads correct and actual timing, and run that thing.

[LPG2CV]

Yes, you are correct in that incorrect TA will add or subtract advance. This is why I was previously giving you concise instructions on how to set it, check/adjust with a timing light, and then leave it alone. . It's a one off configuration setting. It will only ever need altering if you change the trigger edge.

For clarity, all alterations to ignition advance are then made through the appropriate table.

[Rednaxs60]

Thanks to both. The reason for the post is that I understand the timing, but when adjusting for initial, which way do you change the TA settings to suit. My past is haunting me, on the old steam destroyers had to know how a system functioned and how each component worked and was put together - got into the weeds quite often. This philosophy followed me throughout my career, and into my retirement.

Cheers

[Rednaxs60]

Have downloaded KiCad for schematics and such. Seems to be a well used program by the forum.

[PSIG]

That's fine, but you could get instant answers if you tried it on the bike. You know it is to set relative TDC (sensor signal to TDC) for the processor, and if not correct with a timing light, it is in-error. Trying to out-think something you are unfamiliar with goes a lot faster if you see the results of actions, and make corrections. Then understanding floods in and you can explain what happened. This is why I suggested getting it to run and tune it, as you will be buried with info about how it actually works. The big picture, made of many little ones, in your face.

If I've never used ice skates, my mind could race. What if I lean forward? What if I'm not balanced over the blades? What if my blades are not sharp enough? What if ...
Shhhhh...
Just go try it. You know the basic concepts, now go see how it works. It will all become clear, including answers to questions you never thought of.

You will eventually see the benefits of this, as you will be able to manipulate the operation in ways not yet conceivable. This will make a huge difference in your ability to tune and accomplish stuff better, or at all, in ways others cannot. Awesome! Get there quicker by just doing it. Try stuff when you know how it actually works. So much easier and quicker!

You want to lean how to cook, and it's good to briefly read labels in the grocery, but you need to get home and turn on the burner.

[apollard]

I'd bet that destroyer came with lots of training. But half of what you eventually knew came in on the job training. As PSIG says, set the trigger and it becomes obvious, more so than an explanation (at least any explanation I'd do... ).

[Rednaxs60]

Thanks - bailing wire and duct tape, our Navy keeps its ships well past the best before date.

Going to treat this next phase as a new install, incorporating the lessons learned from the first go round (do as I'm told ), and what I have found from other EFI GW conversions. Hopefully a lot less of a grind.

[Rednaxs60]

Heading into Phase two of the project. Going back to basics and start fresh.

Starting on the second phase, first didn’t work quite as well as I thought it would. Will be incorporating the lessons learned, recommendations from the collective, and settings that have proven to be acceptable from first time round. This is for an ’85 Honda GL1200 Gold Wing Limited Edition Fuel Injected model.

Won’t go through the rationale for the project, have documented that in the previous threads.

Lessons learned from the first go round:

Wheel decoder system. Wanted to keep the OEM dual wheel setup, unfortunately this did not work as planned. Most GW EFI conversions use the 36-1 crank trigger wheel. Not many go to a dual wheel system after this to do sequential fuel injection. Recommendation: switch to a 36-1 missing tooth trigger wheel at the start of the project.
The variable reluctance (VR) crank sensor (Ns) can be used with the 36-1 crank trigger wheel.
Making an older OEM FI system and components work with a new aftermarket ECU is not as easy as I thought. This has been more difficult than expected. Specs are not available for the FI components, and the components, in this case, are designed for a specific FI system. These components can be made to work; however, upgrading the original OEM FI components for more modern, and tested FI components may/will assist in bringing the project to fruition faster.
Coils - the OEM GW coils are good for the OEM purpose built system. These coils have been found to be acceptable, but are not equivalent to the more modern coils. I base this on the fact that coil upgrades are being done quite regularly by GW owners. Some of the preferred coils for an upgrade are Dana, Access, Dodge Neon coils, and GL1500 3 Ohm coils. The GL1500 coils are also used as an upgrade for GL1200 coils. Recommendation - look into changing the OEM coils for more modern, and proven to work with the new ECU.
The spark igniters are specific to the OEM CFI system. How these operate can be ascertained, but these spark igniters (coil drivers) are some 37 years old and probably well past the best before date. Recommendation - change to more modern coil drivers that compliment the new coils you will use. Chose a coil driver that is proven to work well with the Speeduino ECU and settings are known that can get you very close to the desired result. Most GW EFI conversions use more modern coil drivers such as the GM 7 pin HEI coil drivers even when OEM coil drivers are available.
You can use the OEM injectors - low impedance with a resistor pack, or upgrade to high impedance injectors. Generic settings for injectors are available with some research, and once in the ballpark settings can be adjusted to suit the tune.
Coolant and air temperature sensors can be used. Generic sensor settings work with these.
TPS sensor can be used.
Needed to install a WBO2 sensor and controller. Will be used for additional tuning, just need a spot to install the sensor.
MAP sensor - use the on board MAP sensor. You can use the OEM MAP sensor, its output is very linear. I would recommend using an OEM MAP (PB) sensor for a real time Baro sensor
Idle air control - the OEM system is passive and works well, no need to upgrade or change.
Pay attention to the recommendations from the collective. The same recommendation(s) are reiterated over and over.
Read as many forum threads as possible. Answers to various questions that you may have can generally be found by doing this.
OEM CFI system design is an issue that must be rationalized. The OEM CFI system is designed to provide excellent performance within the OEM design parameters. Is it better to wrestle with the OEM design or change/modify the system to suit the upgrade/replacement. I would submit that, in hindsight, a modernization of the OEM CFI system components to components that have proven to work well with the new ECU is a good way ahead.

The recommendations above are for my project and may apply to others. I’m fortunate that the FI system is in place, don’t have to go through a design and fit process. Lots to consider without doing this.

Will get all upgrades/changes in place in the next two weeks.

PSIG mentioned the following: “One simple way to find parts and connectors is to take everything you need from a similar small engine type. If you have a 4-cylinder, and take all the sensors, connectors, coils, etc. from it. Sometimes it is simpler to pull the wire harness with the ECU (use the empty box and connector for Speeduino), and all the sensors, injectors, etc. on the harness. Older cheap EFI cars are usually simpler with the stuff you need, and inexpensive too.”

The ECU and component setup is:

Josh Stewart v0.4.4 interface board with an Arduino 2560
Coil Driver - Mitsubishi J723T
Coil Pack - Opal Corsa coil pack
Trigger wheel - 36-1
Crank Sensor - OEM VR
MAP sensor - on board MPX4250AP
Injectors - OEM low impedance 284 cc/min
Coolant/air temperature sensors - OEM
TPS - OEM or after market 3 wire rheostat
Idle Air Control - OEM passive system
WBO2 Sensor/controller - 14point7 Spartan 3 Lite with LSU/ADV sensor

Snap shot of the system. Now to make it work.