[LPG2CV]

'Save As' your tune so you can revert back to it.

Regarding dead time

Dead time is the amount of time it takes for the injector to open and start providing the pulse width. The dead time is different for different voltages/amps. A lower voltage takes longer.

A trick you can do to ensure you are in the ballpark, is to increase the number of squirts and watch the AFR. The AFR should be the same no matter how many squirts you have. For clarity, it's the opentime you are adjusting. You need to do the test at the same voltage though, so keep an eye on that as well. Best done at idle first.

Don't forget to save as the tune first, so you can always revert back and start again.

[Izzy46]

The trick is to locate the data that shows (or leads to) what is changing the GammaE for no apparent reason. Sometimes loading the Calculations.dash screen can help with this, but otherwise the traces and wiggly gauges are the "big picture". As a first test of reading a Matrix screen, see if you can find from the data, the setting that is forcing GammaE to read 98 instead of 100. What was it? It's not a problem at 98, but is an exercise to find the thing that is causing that number in either your settings or operation. Do it again for strange GammaE.

OK, the 98 Gammae is because of IAT measured air density changes, I’ve since set all these to zero for the time being.

I did the cursor dance around the 145 second mark where the Gammae jumps up to 113. I noticed that the ASE goes from N to Y as the Gammae goes up. I guess this is afterstart enrichment but I’ve got no idea why it would be triggering after the engine has been running for 145 seconds. “Warm” also goes from N to Y at 154 second mark which also seems strange. Does “Warm” stand for warmup enrichment or does it mean it has finished the warmup cycle?

I’m also trying to understand the meaning of rpm/s. Revs per minute per second…?

When I explore the engine cut at 159s there is an ASE N then Y just after Run goes from Y to N. I’m assuming that Speedy thinks the engine has been turned off and then initiates ASE. I guess rpm or trigger signal is the key metric that Speedy uses to trigger ASE. Could it be possible that the random ASE that I see at 145 is caused by a loss of trigger signal that is too small to see on MS but enough to cause Speedy to initiate the startup cycle?

Is there a way to see if Speedy is causing the signal loss internally through a bad connection? Is there a different set of antecedents that could occur when speedy loses the signal vs the control module or pickup losing the signal….?

If you change a module and it improves, then you get issues, then you put the old module back in and it improves, that suggest the modules are ok, and the connector/wiring are the issue.

I agree this seems to be the case. I can't cause the engine to stall by pulling, twisting and jiggling wires but major change consistently occur when I change modules. More exploration on this when I go out on the boat tomorrow.

Is this the log where it stalls out?

The "Stall at 1700" is the log from the first module that would stall out between 1400 and 2800.
The "New Module" log is what I recorded after installing the "new module". This log also shows the strange AFR.

Increase the fuel in the first column to match the second and third column where it idles. On the over run, the fuel is decreased, and where it trys to get back to idle, the rpm is dropping past idle, and as you have lower VE there, it is running even leaner and stalling.

Essentially, I should copy and paste the 600 rpm column into the 400 rpm column to help it get back to idle?

On Wednesday I'll go out on the boat and see what I can come back with. I'll start by going out with the "new module" , setting the timing and then rectifying the high AFR. Hopefully I can isolate the problem to the module, pickup, distributor cap or loose wiring.

[apollard]

Have to run to a meeting, but it sure seems like you are see intermittent trigger loss. When the rpm drops and come back up, it goes through the cranking rpm and speedy starts ASE since it thinks it just restarted. This can be from ground or + voltage loss, or even a bad connection (including bad solder joints on the electronics).

rpm/s is the rate of rpm change - very high values like the 16 k you see can't happen, no engine can slow that fast (even high compression diesels). So, that indicates signal loss for some reason.

[Izzy46]

Have to run to a meeting, but it sure seems like you are see intermittent trigger loss. When the rpm drops and come back up, it goes through the cranking rpm and speedy starts ASE since it thinks it just restarted. This can be from ground or + voltage loss, or even a bad connection (including bad solder joints on the electronics).

rpm/s is the rate of rpm change - very high values like the 16 k you see can't happen, no engine can slow that fast (even high compression diesels). So, that indicates signal loss for some reason.

That's good to know, it gives me an idea on where to look. Thank you!

If the problem persist, which I think it will (see post below) I'll try and isolate whether it is the module or the computer. At this stage I'm suspecting some bad soldering in the my Speeduino setup which is impacted by heat and possibly vibration.

Time to get more creative so I can isolate heat and then isolate vibration as the possible causes.

I'm also wondering if EMF could being playing a part here...? The computer is situated reasonably close to the distributor. Could the 1400 to 2800 rev range cause the reluctor to produce the ideal field to upset the Arduino...?

[Izzy46]

I went out on Friday and the boat ran poorly while towing, I then removed the IAT retard setting and the boat now runs perfectly. I’m happy but I can’t understand how changing the IAT retard could account for the difference…….. Is that possible…?

Here are the previous IAT settings.

IAT Timing Retard.png (113.34 KiB) Viewed 2158 times

On Friday the water was flat and the weather was nice. My friend and I tried our best for around 20 minutes to get the engine to behave badly. We worked all across the rev range, slow takeoff, fast takeoff, reducing into the wakesurfing pocket, accelerating into the pocket and staying in the pocket. The moment I jumped out the back of the boat to wakesurf the engine started stalling again.

On Saturday the plan was to test if the issue is heat related. Before we left the port I reduced the IAT retard setting down to zero. This time I wakesurfed right out of the port before the boat had reached full operating temp. To my surprise I was able to wakesurfing for a few kilometers without any issue. I then jumped in the boat and we headed out to the island, around 4 kilometers away. Because the water was so choppy and my wife was nursing a dislocated shoulder we were unable to go very fast, we spent almost the whole time just on the plane or just before the plane. Surprisingly the boat never skipped a beat.

On Friday she runs terribly, on Saturday she runs perfectly.

As far as I can tell there are only three real differences between Friday and Saturday.
On Saturday IAT retard removed (I can’t understand how this setting would cause the rpm to jump off a cliff as shown in the previous log)
On Saturday I had my laptop closed and disconnected for the whole session (I don’t understand how this could affect the outcome)
On Saturday I never got above 3500 rpm (maybe the higher rev ranges produce more heat in the distributor which causes the ignition module to play up at the mid rev ranges….?)

As you can tell I’m clutching at straws here trying to understand what is going on. If I was a gambling man (which I am) I’d say that I just had a lucky day on Saturday and the issue will be back next time I go out.

[apollard]

You don't need IAT retard at all, zero or diable it. It is confusing things.

In general for a 'new' install always suspect wiring, connectors, solder joints, etc before esoteric intermittent electronics faults. They are unlikely - modules fail, but not like you are seeing. Distributors don't give off near the level of EMF necessary- unless you strapped the ecu to the distributor cap.

Basics are most often the problem when sorting a new system. Second would be firmware settings; unfortunately I'm traveling and can't look at your tune. Hopefully someone else can.

Third would be firmware problems affecting just your situation, but very very unlikely IMO at this point in development.

[Izzy46]

My family and I leave Doha for good on June 20th and I'm doing my best to get this boat working so I can pass it on to another family. I really want it running perfectly and I don't want to sell the boat on a perfect day and pass a headache on to someone else.

Here are the latest updates:
Saturday: running perfectly.

Tuesday: I make some minor modifications to ASE, then I wash the boat with lots of water. I try to start her up and nothing is happening. After a number of tries I throw in another tune and she starts right away. She's running averagely and I notice that the distributor is arcing out (it probably has water on it from the wash). I take this as a good opportunity to drop in the new distributor. After that she starts but runs poorly. I adjust the timing to TDC.

Wednesday: Runs and misses and stalls often. I make some changes to the VE table to richen up the idle a little and she seems to run perfectly, I use this opportunity to test all of the wiring by pulling, twisting and wiggling, I can't seem to find anything. Randomly while I'm testing the wiring the boat drops from 750 rpm to 450 rpm and stays there, this has never happened before. I took a log and labelled it weird.

weird.msl

(413.01 KiB) Downloaded 452 times

In summary this boat is so inconsistent, it almost feels possessed. She'll go from terrible to brilliant, to good, to average, to almost perfect, sometime for 10 minutes sometime for 10 days and there doesn't seem to be anything I can point to that is consistent.

The only thing that is kind of consistent is if you change something the boat seems to be happy. Changing the ignition module seems to make a difference and changing the tune seems to make a difference. This could also be confirmation bias on my part.

These are the things I'm pretty confident are working fine.
- Distributor, pickup and ignition module are all new.
- Coil has been changed
- All wiring and connectors are all new. I've also given it all a torture test while the boat is running well and I can't get it to miss.
- I've also checked the wiring to and from the distributor, coil and computer for resistance and it all checks out fine.
- I've also removed all grounds, sanded down the connections and crimped connectors again where necessary. All major connectors are rock solid.
- I've switched the caps on all three relays without any difference.

Where to from here....
I've removed the computer and I'm now inspecting that again. I feel like I've cleaned this and stared at all the joints a thousand times. Is there a way to approach this, to diagnose the potential issue?

I've noticed a couple of things that could be the issue.
- My USB will connect to the Mega when it's not connected to the Speeduino but will loose connection when the two boards are connected. Could this be an indicator of something...?
- I've connected the Dstage throttle controller to the back of the Speedy power supply inputs. I don't think this was a good idea.

IMG_20230531_130504_567.jpg (2.11 MiB) Viewed 2000 times

I also get these weird messages sometimes when I connect the computer to Speeduino.

Screen Shot 2023-05-31 at 11.16.52 AM.png (73.95 KiB) Viewed 2000 times

Screen Shot 2023-05-31 at 11.16.34 AM.png (49.25 KiB) Viewed 2000 times

Screen Shot 2023-05-31 at 11.15.45 AM.png (614.26 KiB) Viewed 2000 times

This happens occasionally when I connect through bluetooth.

That's about everything I can think of. With 3 weeks left in country I've 1 or 2 more rolls of the dice before the boat gets sold for parts

If I can't get success on this roll, is it worth getting a pre-made Speeduino? Most of the shops seem to be out of stock, is this even an option...?

Once again thanks in advance for all the advice and help.

[Izzy46]

For what it's worth, I've included a few more logs of the boat idling and cutting in and out. I don't know if there is anything more that can be determined here.

Idle4.msl shows a strange ASE at 14 seconds without any kind of event triggering it... It also has a pretty standard stalling event at 50 second mark.

idle4.msl

(183.98 KiB) Downloaded 451 times

idle 3 shows a few more standard stalls:

idle 3.msl

(205.12 KiB) Downloaded 419 times

Perfect.msl was completely out of the blue. I can't remember if I did anything special she just started running perfectly.

Perfect.msl

(478.51 KiB) Downloaded 441 times

I logged Perfect2.msl right after thinking it would be the same but it seemed to have reverted back to its old ways.

perfect2.msl

(520.61 KiB) Downloaded 454 times

I'm also wondering if there is a manual for MegaLogViewer that details all of the dials at the bottom of the page? I'm wondering why boost PSI usually sits around -9.6 ?
What is Loops/s and Loops/rev...?

[apollard]

When you connect via USB with the mega on the speeduino, are you disconnecting the Bluetooth module? If so, then the USB not connecting is an issue. You could be seeing tune corruption due to connection issues. IMO, you should never tune via Bluetooth due to possible corruption. Disconnect it and only use USB. Tune corruption will give these random problems.

I would run separate power to the dstage.

Boost on a non boosted engine will always be negative, disregard it. Loops/s is how many times speedy firmware runs every calcs per second. Loops / rev is the same but per engine revolution.

Sorry I can't help more, on phone in the middle of nowhere.

[Izzy46]

When you connect via USB with the mega on the speeduino, are you disconnecting the Bluetooth module? If so, then the USB not connecting is an issue. You could be seeing tune corruption due to connection issues. IMO, you should never tune via Bluetooth due to possible corruption. Disconnect it and only use USB. Tune corruption will give these random problems.

I just disconnected the BT and it connected up right away. Once TS read the controller it detected no differences between the TS tune and the tune on the controller. Do you think it is possible for corruption to occur and TS being unable to detect it when it compares the two tunes....?

I would run separate power to the dstage.

Done!

Boost on a non boosted engine will always be negative, disregard it. Loops/s is how many times speedy firmware runs every calcs per second. Loops / rev is the same but per engine revolution.

That's a lot of calculations!

Sorry I can't help more, on phone in the middle of nowhere.

I appreciate it all, thank you!!