Help with building your Speeduino, installing it, getting it to run etc.
By neovin
#53181
[/quote]

Thank you for this. I copied this spark table and you were right, this gives a much more stable idle. My spark advance is around 10 but when the rpm dips I see it come up to 12 and even out nicely. I'm still not using stepper idle control, just the base air gap.

[/quote]
Have you adjusted the throttle butterfly stop to lower your idle rpm to near stock?
#53210
Just a hint for your engine: The latest engine build of this range was the "Thor" with the Bosch Motronic. It has many improvements, but the one that is easy to adapt is the most useful in every day driving. It is very helpful to fit the intake plenum to any of the older engines, as you gain a huge amount of torque in the low end and reduce fuel consumption dramatically. Last, these where the most powerful engines. You win in every aspect. It is almost another engine with no downside of any kind. Sure you can copy it, too.
Land Rover did a very good job on that engine to adapt modern fluid dynamics which had been stubbornly ignored much too long, for reasons only the Land Rover people may know. Any backyard engine tuner would have build a better intake volume than these "engineers". May they rest in peace and there sins forgiven. Wasting fuel is no piece of art.
If you do such a logical conversion to a Speeduino ECU, it is easy to fit this improvement.
Good luck!
User avatar
By Razorbeam
#53362
Chris Wolfson wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 1:53 pm Just a hint for your engine: The latest engine build of this range was the "Thor" with the Bosch Motronic. It has many improvements, but the one that is easy to adapt is the most useful in every day driving. It is very helpful to fit the intake plenum to any of the older engines, as you gain a huge amount of torque in the low end and reduce fuel consumption dramatically. Last, these where the most powerful engines. You win in every aspect. It is almost another engine with no downside of any kind. Sure you can copy it, too.
Land Rover did a very good job on that engine to adapt modern fluid dynamics which had been stubbornly ignored much too long, for reasons only the Land Rover people may know. Any backyard engine tuner would have build a better intake volume than these "engineers". May they rest in peace and there sins forgiven. Wasting fuel is no piece of art.
If you do such a logical conversion to a Speeduino ECU, it is easy to fit this improvement.
Good luck!
Thank you for the insight. I 've not heard of that swap being done, but Discovery 2s are all over the junkyards around here and I bet I could pick one up cheap. I have noticed a definite improvement in low end torque even without being properly tuned. I think a new camshaft that doesn't have 140k miles on it would help as well. Agree about these engines being the best. I thought about doing an LS swap but read a couple books about the Rover V8 and realized that it's actually a great engine. "Tuning and Modifying the Rover V8" is a great read and made me appreciate the design of the engine. Eventually, I would like to port the cylinder heads and fit a higher lift camshaft to mine.


As an update I was able to get the idle stepper motor working. The wiring shown on the Wiki is different from what was shown in the Land Rover Rave manual. I wired per the Rave manual and voila, we have a working stepper motor. I still need to play with it. I don't think I've gotten it to "home" completely because the max steps it takes until it closes the air gap is 150 and I think it should be 180.

The big question I have now is does my tune look right. I know it's rough as it only has about 30 minutes of auto tune on the map, but it seems to really be lowering my VE values to the single digits which doesn't seem right. I set up my base map based on the ve table generator and immediately it starts lowering my VE values dramatically. I have the warmup enrichment set to 100% and the acceleration enrichment is pretty low. I've posted my tune as well as a snapshot of the VE. Any pointers on how to get a good tune would be appreciated.
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By PSIG
#53377
Please post a run-log with the tune used to take it. There may be no problem, except that PW resolution is minimal (too coarse) at low-load, and some scaling may be in order.

Every specific engine using a specific fuel needs specific fueling and ignition timing in order to extract maximum energy and performance from the fuel, no matter if idling, cruising or WOT. Fueling and timing are two halves of the equation, and must both be tuned together in order to reach maximum efficiency (power, economy, etc). Note that AFRs are only relative targets, and are not the goal, but rather maximum efficiency. Once best performance is found (providing those resulting AFRs and timing) for every condition, then you can use the AFR table to have Speeduino try to hold those best values under changing conditions. The first job is to find them. ;)

Beginning at warm idle, use other indicators of efficiency (such as minimum MAP) to find best AFR and timing. Move up the load and rpm and repeat, using more indicators, such as RPMdot. Tune several spots on each table to find the values, and blend the tables to "connect the dots". The more spots you test, the better the tune between those spots. Unless on a dyno, some creative driving will be useful.

A warm tune is mandatory in order to begin startup and warmup tuning, as the additional fuel and timing is based on a good warm tune, so get going with that and move-on to the next tuning step. 8-)
User avatar
By PSIG
#53378
BTW, my comments above are partially based on your unusual choices to not use Baro reference and to use Multiply (incorporate AFR). Can you use those settings? Of course, and they have specific parameters, changes to other settings, and tuning approaches. However, unless you are a well-experienced tuner, or have a solid grasp of each function and its implications, they may not give you satisfaction. We are after happy campers here, and while they are useful tools under specific conditions, they may not be the best first-step.

So, without making assumptions of your tuning abilities or global understanding, I'd suggest using typical settings as below. They should give you a better "feel" for how Speeduino responds, and a baseline for how it's different with other settings.

Image

As for incorporating AFR targets in the current state of function, they are only my opinions, but you can see where I stand in this thread: viewtopic.php?f=21&t=2510&p=38783&#p38783 My purpose is not to impose my preferences, but to guide users of unknown abilities to rapid satisfaction. To that end I hope that helps.
User avatar
By Razorbeam
#53380
PSIG wrote: Fri Oct 01, 2021 5:39 pm BTW, my comments above are partially based on your unusual choices to not use Baro reference and to use Multiply (incorporate AFR). Can you use those settings? Of course, and they have specific parameters, changes to other settings, and tuning approaches. However, unless you are a well-experienced tuner, or have a solid grasp of each function and its implications, they may not give you satisfaction. We are after happy campers here, and while they are useful tools under specific conditions, they may not be the best first-step.

So, without making assumptions of your tuning abilities or global understanding, I'd suggest using typical settings as below. They should give you a better "feel" for how Speeduino responds, and a baseline for how it's different with other settings.

Image

As for incorporating AFR targets in the current state of function, they are only my opinions, but you can see where I stand in this thread: viewtopic.php?f=21&t=2510&p=38783&#p38783 My purpose is not to impose my preferences, but to guide users of unknown abilities to rapid satisfaction. To that end I hope that helps.
Thank you for this insight PSIG as you have done wonders for the happiness of this particular camper :D . Please make the assumption that I'm completely new to this and open to feedback and advice. I've read one book on tuning and understand the basics behind it, but insights like yours are helpful as it relates specifically to TS and Speeduino. Ultimately that is why I decided to pursue this system so that I can learn a new skill and finish something that seemed impossible.

I have made the settings changes as you have suggested. I will put some time in getting the tune refined by spots as you've described and will follow up with a tune and a log file. Thanks again!
User avatar
By Razorbeam
#53388
I tried to get a data log with the new settings suggested but I could not keep the car running with these settings activated. The idle was surging and eventually the engine would stall out. Do I need to make changes to my ve map in order to get it to run with the new settings?
By ric355
#53393
Razorbeam wrote: Fri Oct 01, 2021 10:39 pm I tried to get a data log with the new settings suggested but I could not keep the car running with these settings activated. The idle was surging and eventually the engine would stall out. Do I need to make changes to my ve map in order to get it to run with the new settings?
Yes you will need to make changes to your VE map as the settings change the fuelling calculation.
By neovin
#53510
[quote
The big question I have now is does my tune look right. I know it's rough as it only has about 30 minutes of auto tune on the map, but it seems to really be lowering my VE values to the single digits which doesn't seem right. I set up my base map based on the ve table generator and immediately it starts lowering my VE values dramatically. I have the warmup enrichment set to 100% and the acceleration enrichment is pretty low. I've posted my tune as well as a snapshot of the VE. Any pointers on how to get a good tune would be appreciated.
[/quote]

you can lock the idle cells in the autotune dialog, start with any corrections eg baro, afr, off.

Start with this file, get idle cell afr's near 13.7, highlight them, right click and lock in the autotune screen

Needs to be at correct temp, whilst running autotune first time, slow pedal inputs as ae is off and will lean out on tip in.

Steady states are best, long slow accelerations, find a big long hill to hit the higher load cells.

save regularly and reload so you can rollback.
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