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Help with building your Speeduino, installing it, getting it to run etc.
By theonewithin
#51630
Trevor I think you need to watch some videos on engine tuning.

Your questions here point in the direction that you have no basic idea of how or what to do with tuning an ECU.
User avatar
By PSIG
#51632
Lots of questions, but a few brief(ish) answers to get you going. Seriously, topics like these have filled books:
Trevor Getty wrote:
Mon Jul 05, 2021 1:42 pm
Back to voltage correction.
In order to best adjust voltage correction Is it best to turn everything on like fans and lights and create load then adjust the voltage correction until the idle is similar to what it was before or even a bit higher to cope with the extra load?
Mostly. More of what you're suggesting is here, but don't try to compensate for load, as there are other solutions for that, and you don't want to pooch it if load didn't cause the current condition. Just make it accurate. You can spend beneficial hours watching basic theory and how-to videos by Andy Wyatt, HP Tuners, Andy Whittle, and many more. Pay attention to the goal of the effort (theory), not how they do it in a different system. The why is the important part.
Trevor Getty wrote:
Mon Jul 05, 2021 1:42 pm
My next question is now I'm into tuning the car properly I could do with a suitable base map. So I had incorrectly chosen the generic speedy map which is na. … If there is a better map or alternative tune I could use please ping me. ?
Nope. You chose the correct table (Base Tune), and simply need to mod that one to your requirements before you begin mapping it. More or less RPM range, more MAP range, and move the incremental header spacing to where the engine needs it most. Burn that. Then, either populate the table with values using the Table Generator (select Use Existing X & Y Bins), or begin with a generic "wedge" table. More about that here. Some begin with a "flat map" of all rich values to get running, such as 60 or 80 VE in every cell.

I don't want to sound repetitive (though I am), but I'll say again that the "tune" is your settings and options, but also contains the tables. A "base tune" is most useful for those settings to get started, but the tables should always be unique to your engine, components, specific fuel, performance goals, etc. I strongly recommend (and you can search other rants) that you do not use someone else's tune on your project.

More often than not, some settings or options (and always the tables) will be incorrect for your specific project, and you'll spend more frustrating time finding and fixing those, than doing it right for your project the first time. It takes time, but when you're done you'll have learned what they are for and that they are correct for your setup, in its current configuration.
Trevor Getty wrote:
Mon Jul 05, 2021 1:42 pm
Ok onto base tuning.
Now that I want to create a base tune before taking it to the rolling Road.
IS it best practice to leave afr table 'as is' and instead tune the car without afr correction initially. So use different rev points until its MBT I think it was called. Ie map stops falling and rpm stops climbing and dial it back one or 2 degrees? Then if the fuel doesn't match the afr increase the fueling I could use auto tune features or adjust manually and then go through same process again checking ignition timing?
That's the idea. What you call a Base Tune is just the best settings and options for your project, so the dyno and log data can aim you at best performance, for timing, fuel and Lambda/AFR targets.

Random: Use whatever methodical methods that you can wrap your head around, and stick to them. Make one change at-a-time and check results. Use all your data to see the big picture (and little influences) as diagnostics for what to change when tuning and why.

A running tune good enough to drive to the dyno (or off the trailer) is your goal at this point. If it were street tuning, then you'd be testing without corrections for good AFRs to use as targets. For dyno work, you can just use gross guesses and VEA (auto-tune, but not Live while you drive!) to bring the table generally into a safe running shape. Some just plug (gasoline) 13:1 (Lambda 0.87-ish) everywhere on the AFR Target table, wire or check-valve the wastegate open, and drive it around the block. It sucks for performance, but is safe and drives, and is ready for the dyno when it gets there.

Tune from the bottom-up. Begin with idle, and work your way up through off-idle, light cruise, light accel, etc. As you go, you will see a pattern develop for timing and fuel, and friendly Lambda. By the time you're pushing it hard, you'll already have a good idea of what it will want when you get there. Enough for now, and don't let anxiety, time, or enthusiasm push you into areas you or the engine are not ready for.
Trevor Getty wrote:
Mon Jul 05, 2021 1:42 pm
In the bme boost map when it hits boost I see some of the timing figures going negative what is the reason for this. Is seen docs suggesting to pull 1-2 degrees of timing for each psi boost as a general rule but should it ever go negative?
Ah, because "turbo". :lol: Seriously, there can be a few reasons. One is that the burn rate is truly increasing due to boost pressure and turbulence, and therefore the timing must be retarded in order to maintain the best peak cylinder pressure crank angle (minimum spark timing for best torque or the spark timing for maximum brake torque or MBT). Or, it is due to det-limited pump gas, and they are delaying the pressure curve to avoid det (but, what fuel and is yours similar?). A related possibility is that they are adding "insurance" in-case the customer tanks-up with crappy fuel and doesn't test for det before beating on it. Unfortunately, this means the engine is running de-tuned for a hopefully-never "if" situation.

While we can't always know, it can also be that the ECM did not have ignition latency correction, so retard is less than actual, or it could be right-on. All of this points to the mantra that the tune for your project is unique, and should be tuned on its own merits and many factors. Use care if "borrowing" tune info, as you can't know what those tuners were doing or thinking when they clicked their mouses. Have fun! 8-)
By Trevor Getty
#51699
psig you are a star.

Your advice and help so far has been great and really appreciated.
Car is starting much easier with no throttle, idle is much better now. I've got the acceleration enrichment making throttle response much crisper and advanced idle seems to hold it better now with other car electrics on.

I've followed your flat ve table approach running slightly rich, and adjusting the timing to get the map values down - most important i had to do it from scratch.
It really helped starting again as taking the other tune as a starting point was going the wrong direction and lean in lots of areas. It was much better to follow ur advice and stay rich and tune up from there.

I am still working my way up through the rev range and I'm not into boost yet.

Thanks for taking the time to respond.
I do know that this is really a technical site for the speeduino boards and how to tune a car isn't really what it is for.

But if I ask the questions many others will to.

Your info has enabled me to go from nothing to a running idling car. So thumbs up....

Ill keep tweaking, then street tune and finally I'll tune it while on a dyno as they don't know how to tune standalone ecus I've been told :D
By Trevor Getty
#51705
Quick question.
I had wired my wideband and then the stock narrow band into o2 2nd sensor input. Can anyone tell me does the speedy use the same o2 input Config for both o2 sensors?
I'm hoping it's not using both afr sensors at moment if it is I better remove it.

They are showing seperately in TS and correctly so If I unplug it changes value etc. but as one is a NB and one a WB I just wanted to make sure that the difference i was seeing In Afr values were actually because they arent the same type of sensor.

I only see one sensor calibration table and one sensor selection so maybe it expected both to be the same

N.b. This wasn't for long term use.
I was simply wanting to see if my WB was calibrated correctly.

Ps as ive an innovate psb1 it needs to be taken out and calibrated in open air every so often for proper calibration.

I had hoped the n.b. would inform me when I needed to do this.

Thanks as always. T.
By dazq
#51707
Trevor Getty wrote:
Fri Jul 09, 2021 5:23 pm
Quick question.
I had wired my wideband and then the stock narrow band into o2 2nd sensor input. Can anyone tell me does the speedy use the same o2 input Config for both o2 sensors?
I'm hoping it's not using both afr sensors at moment if it is I better remove it.

They are showing seperately in TS and correctly so If I unplug it changes value etc. but as one is a NB and one a WB I just wanted to make sure that the difference i was seeing In Afr values were actually because they arent the same type of sensor.

I only see one sensor calibration table and one sensor selection so maybe it expected both to be the same

N.b. This wasn't for long term use.
I was simply wanting to see if my WB was calibrated correctly.

Ps as ive an innovate psb1 it needs to be taken out and calibrated in open air every so often for proper calibration.

I had hoped the n.b. would inform me when I needed to do this.

Thanks as always. T.
As you suspected the second O2 uses a shared config table etc as the primary one. There was always plans to make it true dual channel but hasn't got there yet.
By Trevor Getty
#51963
Thanks to all of your help and support and a good bit of reading on my part the car now idles and runs pretty well.

I have not yet tuned it on boost as I'm using a temp wiring loom and want it wired permanently and securely before I take it out and bump it all over the place for road tuning. :D

The only issue I'm having currently is when im cranking / starting the car.

It smells very rich and will pop and bang sometimes quite loudly while I'm trying to start it especially if hot. Almost like I'm flooding the engine.

I have no iacv at moment in play and I'm using fixed throttle position and ignition timing only for idle control before I move to iacv.

I think its getting too much fuel but don't know how to adjust cranking settings that much.

I see a warming enrichment and afterstart enrichment and taper times for after it starts these seem to be working fine as it settles to idle very well after it starts.

When cranking is it using the ve table for its fueling base line before other adjustment or enrichment values say its at 100kpa atmospheric value and 500 rpm is my lowest rpm ve table setting would it be using that field by default?

E.g. my cranking timing is set to 15 degrees which is roughly where my idle timing is at lowest value of 500 rpm. Mbt is around 32 degrees at 700rpm for min map before starts to knock so this is where my 15 to 18 degrees came from for cranking and low idle settings.

It actually seems to be harder to start warm and is almost backfiring until I flood clear it and sit with throttle wide open until it catches and I back off again then it idles fine.

I could take some logs now the car is running if it will help diagnose.

But maybe there is a set of steps that I could follow to help setup my cranking values or that will help me gather better logs for u.


Slightly related but lower priority.
When idling my car likes low 14s or maybe 13.5 values. Would having richer values than 14.7 affect emissions for the u.k. mot test? I'm just wondering as I could setup a map for mot use which runs nearer 14.7 at idle but runs richer either as a switchable map or just for that day. Does anyone else have idle settings which are richer and have any mot impact.

Thanks as always. Trev
User avatar
By jonbill
#51970
15 degrees is probably too much cranking timing. suggest 5 degrees.
in cranking settings there is a cranking enrichment table.
I believe it interpolates from your 500 rpm cell to the rpm it cranks at and then applies yhe cranking enrichment.
but try less advance first.
By Roverdog
#51974
Add a column in the VE table to the left at your approx cranking rpm,ie 200 to 400
Then take a log of your start attempt,only a few seconds needed.
Then replay the log one very slow step at a time from the first crank revolution.you will follow the cursor down the table from the top lh cell,pay carefull attention to the injector pulse width at each cell as you go,when warm should be similiar or slightly higher value than yout best idle PW.

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