[cx500tc]

Everyone should remain civil to one another at all times. Failure to do so may result in action taken by the moderators or site owner.

Thank you.

[Yachtsman]

I for one haven't ever used profanity.

[Yachtsman]

I'll post the data I get from my engine, and talk about it on a new thread when it's done. I think Ethanol fuel will replace Petrol Simply because it's produces less exhaust emissions, it's carbon negative which puts it in compliance with some treaties to reduce the production of greenhouse gases. a dedicated engine can make as good or better performance as Gasoline if it's of the right compression. I'll prove it can be viable, but I can't make it used.

[klotzy_550]

I haven't got any heart felt beliefs except that an engine with high compression running ethanol will need a truck clutch, gearbox, and differential. High compression does mean good thermodynamic efficiency, but it will need care but to do reasonable mileage. It will need an EFi system eventually but if it doesn't work on carb it probably won't work, ethanol engines do run and have been running for years with compressions between gasoline and mine I just want to get the mileage up, but I'm not going to run so lean that I burn valves or melt pistons, damage to the engine would be unforgivable.

You don't need to worry about damage to the engine when you try to run at 1.63 Lambda. Mainly because it isn't going to run at all.

Says you! This engine is an example when experiment is the only way we'll truly know if it will work. At the moment the carb is on a shelf. The engine is only a lump of metal with potential. When it ready to fire I'll do what anyone would do, it's been apart, so I'll put the distributor in to the notch then twist it to give one degree more advance, but leave it finger tight so I can turn it. The jets in the carb might be right, but one never knows.

Nope, I am 100% certain that a carb'd or PFI engine will not run at 1.63:1. Definitely will not start at that lean. A DI engine would likely run at 1.63. The combustion stability would be questionable at times. Still, a DI engine wouldn't start at 1.63 Lambda.

[Yachtsman]

I don't know why you think my engine will be 1.63 Lambda I don't know what it will be for it to run. I think Ethanol fuel will replace Petrol. Simply because it's produces less exhaust emissions, it's carbon negative which puts it in compliance with certain treaties to reduce the production of greenhouse gases, which the US is now a signatory of. Electric cars are only neutral. A dedicated ethanol engine is expected to make at least 15% better performance as Gasoline simply because of the higher compression. The consultants doing that report for SAE.org where of the opinion if the right compression is used ethanol will be more thermodynamicly efficient. I'll prove it can be viable, but I can't make it used. I think with direct injection you'll be able to increase the compression making the whole system more thermodynamicly efficient.

[klotzy_550]

I don't know why you think my engine will be 1.63 Lambda I don't know what it will be for it to run. I think Ethanol fuel will replace Petrol. Simply because it's produces less exhaust emissions, it's carbon negative which puts it in compliance with certain treaties to reduce the production of greenhouse gases, which the US is now a signatory of. Electric cars are only neutral. A dedicated ethanol engine is expected to make at least 15% better performance as Gasoline simply because of the higher compression. The consultants doing that report for SAE.org where of the opinion if the right compression is used ethanol will be more thermodynamicly efficient. I'll prove it can be viable, but I can't make it used. I think with direct injection you'll be able to increase the compression making the whole system more thermodynamicly efficient.

I never argued that an ethanol engine would be less thermodynamically efficient. I argued that you would achieve lower fuel economy than petrol, since you are at a potential energy deficit, and even though your thermo efficiency has increased, it is not enough to over come the energy deficiency.

I state 1.63 Lambda because you "believe" that ethanol doesn't require a 9:1 stoich AFR. So I am assuming that you will run petrol stoich of 14.7:1. Hence this will net a 1.63 Lambda mixture. You can't change the chemical nature of the fuel, you can't make it have more energy than it does, and you cannot change the stoich combustion mixture, it is what it is. You can try to lean burn ethanol, but your NOx emissions will greatly increase, likely higher than a normally operating petrol engine.

You keep talking about increasing compression, like no ceiling limit exists. Tell me Yachtsman, what happens when you have a large combustion surface area, and an increasingly small combustion volume?

[Yachtsman]

I never argued that an ethanol engine would be less thermodynamically efficient. I argued that you would achieve lower fuel economy than petrol, since you are at a potential energy deficit, and even though your thermo efficiency has increased, it is not enough to over come the energy deficiency.

I state 1.63 Lambda because you "believe" that ethanol doesn't require a 9:1 stoich AFR. So I am assuming that you will run petrol stoich of 14.7:1. Hence this will net a 1.63 Lambda mixture. You can't change the chemical nature of the fuel, you can't make it have more energy than it does, and you cannot change the stoich combustion mixture, it is what it is. You can try to lean burn ethanol, but your NOx emissions will greatly increase, likely higher than a normally operating petrol engine.

You keep talking about increasing compression, like no ceiling limit exists. Tell me Yachtsman, what happens when you have a large combustion surface area, and an increasingly small combustion volume?

There may indeed be a compression limit, but I don't know what it is, does anyone? I think it's higher than 16.51 to 1 so I've just used the best compression for a air pump because that's what it essentially is if you don't let it fire.
I've also got the makings for port injection if I need it. Direct injection would probably be better, but it's not supported
Regardless of if it makes less power, I don't think when I dyno it it will. It still can be used as simply because it makes less emissions, because a combustion engine making any emissions will be unacceptable eventually.

[klotzy_550]

There may indeed be a compression limit, but I don't know what it is, does anyone? I think it's higher than 16.51 to 1 so I've just used the best compression for a air pump because that's what it essentially is if you don't let it fire.
I've also got the makings for port injection if I need it. Direct injection would probably be better, but it's not supported
Regardless of if it makes less power, I don't think when I dyno it it will. It still can be used as simply because it makes less emissions, because a combustion engine making any emissions will be unacceptable eventually.

Depends on the bore size, the larger the bore the lower the optimal compression limit. For example, many DI diesel truck engines run around 16.8 - ~18:1, which again are air pumps.

How did you determine that 16.51:1 was the "best compression for a air pump?" Seeing in the previous line you stated that you didn't know the optimal ratio.

A DI engine would make more power because it can over come the decrease in volumetric efficiency from using ethanol.

" because a combustion engine making any emissions will be unacceptable eventually" - Yup, but then there are cleaner alternatives than ethanol, with higher energy density. Hydrogen if done correctly would have a true carbon footprint, and better fuel economy.

[Macs]

"because a combustion engine making any emissions will be unacceptable eventually."

What !! No airliners to go to global warming summits?

[infinityedge]

What !! No airliners to go to global warming summits?

Depending on how long of a timeline we're looking at, airliners could go electric as well.