[Davidvonohlerking]

Graphene is going to replace lithium? Someone needs to brush up on the difference between anode and cathode.

Who are you??

Graphene aluminum batteries. the shit in my hand right now.

Graphene is the active in the mix, and why would i call it an aluminum battery? Someone needs to build before they shit talk

[Davidvonohlerking]

British Ethanol won't be producing ethanol by any method until my engine is finished.

I don't think you grasp that making fuel ethanol in any quantity is many orders of magnitude harder than swapping out some pistons and tuning for E100. The engine work can be done in a long weekend by a competent tech. Incredibly smart engineers have spent decades trying to create a sustainable ethanol production chain and have yet to succeed. You can't get your simple engine project to run, yet handwave away the supply side like it is easy. This is one of the many reasons why the only person that considers you a subject matter expert on ethanol ICEs is yourself.

Long weekend?? you mean a couple hours.
are you an expert infinity? because you sure just sound like a negative wiki thumper. <3
i literally run my motorcycle off trash, tequila, ethanol, diesel, or gasoline. Its hydrocarbon chain length, and burn rate. thats all that matters. you want the expansion to take place during the downstroke. period.

[apollard]

so who here actually builds stuff in this regard? because im hearing some really heated bs. fuel from waste is the way to go. its simple as heck. there is really nothing more than that.

Im blown away that people HERE dont get the concept.
From the waste you can get alcohols rather than ethanol.. but should i not bring chemistry into this?

Im really missing what the argument against this is.. maybe because there is none?

Because it is technically and chemically feasible, but not practical / economical on a commercial fuel scale. I'm a chemical production engineer, so part of my job is keeping up with emerging technologies. Right now, it is possible on a very small scale. It is not "simple as heck".

There are some limited geographies that lend themselves to food production waste to alcohol plants BUT those are very limited - such as cane waste in Brazil. Even then, they require government subsidy. Other commercial scales waste to alcohol units are small scale and use as much energy as they produce - sometimes more.

If there is a commercial scale plant that is meeting it's objectives outside of the limited geograpies, please post the data.

Billions have been spent trying to make it work - spent by governments and private industry. Despite the bloviating here, quite a few of those billions came from the US, even with the corn lobby.

Will there be a breakthrough that makes it viable? Perhaps. Until then, none of the claims made here hold water. The claim that waste ethanol is water nuetral is also nothing but BS, the plants use lots of water and it definately isn't cleaner leaving than when it came into the production unit.

Disclaimer: I work for a global chemical company that is involved in ethanol production in Brazil (about .1% of our sales worldwide). I cannot post any details about that due to work requirements.

[infinityedge]

I totally get the concept and if you want to use a speeduino to control a wood gas/ethanol/biodiesel engine, cool, all the power to you, how can we help.

If you act like Yahtsman (if you have the stomach, read his other threads) and claim against contradictory evidence that biofuels can replace crude oil for transportation at any significant percentage, and that this will be environmentally and socially a good things by, you'll find pushback. In yahtsman's case, he long ago burned through any goodwill that assumed he is a rational actor willing to debate in good faith.

[apollard]

i literally run my motorcycle off trash, tequila, ethanol, diesel, or gasoline.

Yes, and it's been done for decades in very small quanties. Yachtsmas' allegation is that commercial scale is viable. If you know of a commercial scale plant meeting objectives, provide the data.

[infinityedge]

Graphene aluminum batteries. the shit in my hand right now.

Graphene is the active in the mix, and why would i call it an aluminum battery? Someone needs to build before they shit talk

Graphene has been used as the cathode of many different batteries including ones with lithium based anodes. So, yeah, call it an aluminum battery. What's the energy density of production Al-C batteries? What is their discharge rating? How much do they cost per kWh? I'm not stuck on any chemistry. Lithium has a lot of physically based benefits, but it is not the end all be all.

[Yachtsman]

Will there be a breakthrough that makes it viable? Perhaps. Until then, none of the claims made here hold water. The claim that waste ethanol is water nuetral is also nothing but BS, the plants use lots of water and it definately isn't cleaner leaving than when it came into the production unit.

Disclaimer: I work for a global chemical company that is involved in ethanol production in Brazil (about .1% of our sales worldwide). I cannot post any details about that due to work requirements.

I accept that there are ethanol plants in existence in some parts of the world that are not water neutral and the water they discharge is not cleaner than it came in, but that would not be acceptable in the UK the Environmental protection agency wouldn't allow it.
There will be more pressure to change from carbon positive gasoline engines to carbon negative ethanol engines if there is at least one one running that outputs at least as much but probably more while producing much less exhaust emissions than any petrol engine.
Breweries in England never tried to be water neutral it rains a lot here so there was never a need, brewing was a way of making the water safe to drink so people drank one or the other never both.

[Yachtsman]

If you knew as much as you think you know, you'd know that the US has some of the largest and the most advanced 2G-5G plants and research in the world.

I agree the U.S. has, but congress votes as the farm lobbyist want, the US could build ethanol facilities that made 3-5G ethanol cheaper than anywhere in the world, but I can't even get a quote in the UK. I don't want 2G ethanol made from corn.

[apollard]

I accept that there are ethanol plants in existence in some parts of the world that are not water neutral and the water they discharge is not cleaner than it came in, but that would not be acceptable in the UK the Environmental protection agency wouldn't allow it.

It is good to know the UK has figured out a way to use water for production and yet clean the water at the same time. Would you mind sharing this fabulous technology with the rest of the world? The UK are sadly missing out on the greatest profit opportunity around - industrial production that cleans the environment!

[Yachtsman]

Since the clean air acts came in to force in the UK it's been unacceptable for companies to discharge pollution into the air. Other bodies have responsibility for water, the rivers of the UK now have fish in them. How companies actually control the effluent they make I don't know or care, I just know they are no longer allowed to. The brewery I worked at was built on a green fields site there was a water treatment works the manager of that department once told me although they took water from the Dee they could make water chemically identical to any in the world. He was proud that all the water on the site came in via his works and the site was off grid. At the tine I wasn't very interested but I took that to mean they didn't take water from the water board. How anyone cleans up is a proprietary process so even if I knew I couldn't post in any but the most general terms