[roger.rrgt]

Instead of buying another coil (not so expected low quality) module only to fry it in two whole weekends, the plan is to make a simple driver using a gb14c40l or ngd8201ag, they are easily accessible and cheap for me.
The gb was used to make drivers to work on hall distributors, a really dumb one, dont expect your coil to be intact if you leake the keys on. I think the benefit of this is to use both independently from the speeduino or use the 12V output to drive it, also easy to solder into a board. Below is the diagram for it, really simple.

Ignicao Fabrinic Ver.04-Sensor Hall.jpg (52.46 KiB) Viewed 3280 times

The ngd i only saw bein used with speeduino 5V so i dont know if it is possible to use with the hall distributor like the other. But looks to be a more modern piece with thermal protection and other things, and being really tiny . Using this with the 5V is even easier as no more pieces are needed other than itself.
The downside of being dependent of speedy is to tune the ignition while the injection is not 100% done yet, the jerks at 2k RPM are not solved yet, other than that, it is working smooth.

With my limited knowledge in this subject, can someone help me pick one?

[PSIG]

I am confused. First to your question — you do not include the load (coil) spec's, so only general guesses can be made. My guess is that either device could probably drive a typical distributor-style coil.

That said, automotive coil drivers (ignition control modules - ICMs) that do exactly this are everywhere, and generally inexpensive new or less if taken from a wreck. The advantage is that most of these module types (GM, Bosch, etc) also either control dwell or limit maximum current, reducing possible damage. Your circuit does neither. It could dwell too long (damage), or not enough (poor or no running), or work perfectly, but we can't know that before you spend the money and do the work. You also have the option to reconfigure the module as the Speeduino-controlled driver later.

Second, why? To lose ignition control is a big loss to the engine's potential. Cheap clone coils can fail of course, but two or more begins to indicate something else is not right. I know you had a failure or two, and the cause should be found for that. But avoiding that task will only make the job longer or more difficult, as ignition should be tuned along with fuel. They work together with each supporting and enabling the other for best operation.

Anyway, your path is viable (do your thing!), but may hold you back more than it helps. I would do a good review of your settings, logs and any other information, with hopes of finding your running issue and verifying if it is truly ignition related, and why. It could be an easy fix. What are you using for coil and coil driver now? Post your setup info, logs of the issue, and the tune file used to take the logs. Maybe we can help?

[roger.rrgt]

I am leaning towards this because here these kind of modules are not that inexpensive and for 1/4 of the price i can have a simple driver for wasted spark.

The only module avaible to use with hall distributor is the bosch knockof 0227 100 142, to be used with one very specific cylindrical coil, the bosch 9220081097, that is not even sold anymore. Because of that the plastic F.000.ZS0.105 is used in place, the specs are close, between 0,39 to 0,55 ohm in the primary and 6,5 to 9,5 Kohm secondary, no dwell info, but the module lacks dwell control so either the coil or more probably the module fry at some point. This leaves me very little choices to a reliable ignition system.
If the distributor circuit fry something, i can replace the bad coil or transistor and control the next setup with speeduino and have more headaches in the process .


This is the coupled coil/module im using, as a single unit it should be compatible with a hall system, but i guess it is not that easy.

Im using a 60-2 trigger wheel with hall sensor running semi-sequential. The tune below gives me plenty of power, more than the carburetor used to, it became quite difficult to do a soft launch because the front wheel lifts easily with only a bit of throttle. Only had some minor issues at launch and at 2k rpm, but nothing that stops it from driving, it is as annoying as a clogged jet.

CurrentTune.msq

(79.8 KiB) Downloaded 92 times

To have a reliable system i would have to go back to a inductive system or even points and no, not an option. Going back to the carburetor and try the speedy ignition is a viable option too, i already have one locked distributor for it. Maybe this is the path.

[Vauhtivaunu]

If you don´t want to use Speeduino as ignition control you need somekind of dwell control. Your circutry there´s none.
You will fry IGBT and/or coil for sure.

The only module avaible to use with hall distributor is the bosch knockof 0227 100 142

There is wast amount of different Bosch numbers for same ignition unit for hall-distributor and dwell control.

0 227 100 100,
0 227 100 101,
0 227 100 103,
0 227 100 104,
0 227 100 113,
0 227 100 116,
0 227 100 118,
0 227 100 137,
0 227 100 138,
0 227 100 139,
1 227 010 001,
1 227 010 004,
1 227 022 008,
211 905 351,
211 905 351 A,
211 905 351 B,
211 905 351 D,
211 905 351 E
and also ATP Part Number XIAM012.

[LAV1000]

@roger.rrgt,
I don't get your problem
I mean you do have 60-2 wheel and sensor setup which work fine for injection.
Speeduino seems to work on this setup.
You only need to hook up the smart coil to your speeduino......
This way your dwell is controlled and far more possebilleties to set the right spark advances.
It did read you are using a locked distributor for now, much gain to found there.

Speeduino can put out a 5 or 12 Vdc signal to control your smartcoil...
But you need to find the pinout of your smartcoil, check electrical schematic of car which use it.

[roger.rrgt]

If you don´t want to use Speeduino as ignition control you need somekind of dwell control. Your circutry there´s none.
You will fry IGBT and/or coil for sure.


There is wast amount of different Bosch numbers for same ignition unit for hall-distributor and dwell control.

Nothing on this list is avaible on the national market, i dont have access to them, the only module avaible to hall use is the 0 227 100 142, wich dont controll dwell. Also i have 3 coils to work something out when it goes wrong .

@roger.rrgt,
You only need to hook up the smart coil to your speeduino......
This way your dwell is controlled and far more possebilleties to set the right spark advances.
It did read you are using a locked distributor for now, much gain to found there.

My problem is my injection have some things to solve yet and i didnt want do it while tuning the ignition too, so i am thinking of a way to use temporarily the distributor and module to solve those issues and then switch to speeduino and locked dizzy. The locked distributor is a spare one, the one installed is vacuum/centrifugal.

Can i set TS to only controll the dwell time and no ignition advance as part of this temporarily fix?

[LAV1000]

No, you can't control dwell only.....
But if you have the OEM vacuum advance curve then you can put it in the speeduino.
Normally in speeduino they are using TPS or MAP vs RPM to make an ignition advance.
Say for 2000 RPM you need 25 degree, then you set 1 collom for 25 degree.
Doesn't matter then if TPS or MAP goes from max to min as long as it stays at 2000 rpm it is 25 degree advance.

Also look at the "starting advance" setting if suits your oem setting.

[roger.rrgt]

Decided to revisit one junkyard smart coil used in the injected aircooled bus and put it to work after a few bench tests and other TS tests. The engine is in working condition again and is working with a mix of centrifugal only and fixed timing on TS.

Could only test at slow speeds and revs today, it drives, a bit sluggish when releasing the clutch but idling like a clock, better than before. Another thing to mention is the engine temperature, in all the past setups the max temp was between 59 and 61ºC and now it is going all the way to 69ºC. The sensor is located right under the header, between the valve rods. So it seems like i never had a efficient ignition system working in the first place.

No, you can't control dwell only.....
But if you have the OEM vacuum advance curve then you can put it in the speeduino.
Normally in speeduino they are using TPS or MAP vs RPM to make an ignition advance.
Say for 2000 RPM you need 25 degree, then you set 1 collom for 25 degree.
Doesn't matter then if TPS or MAP goes from max to min as long as it stays at 2000 rpm it is 25 degree advance.

Also look at the "starting advance" setting if suits your oem setting.

Your method will simplify a lot of tinkering and head scratching, will be doing my homework to find information on the oem advance.
The way it is now, with fixed 12º, makes it idle good and at 18º i get even better idle and peak RPM. Did this because i dont know at wich RPM the centrifugal begins to work (chinesium dizzy), but i will be playing with that. The starting advance at 4º makes the life of the starter motor way easier too.
This method dont look too bad at all, think of this as a aircooled 1200 with centrifugal only distributor, but a bit smarter than that.

[LAV1000]

Nice to read you also changed to ignition control.
Put down the specs of engine, someone might know the curve for the vacuum advance.

Or use a calculator to get started.
http://www.useasydocs.com/theory/spktable.htm

Use it as a guideline to get you going, don't take it for granted !

Precise spark timing is needed to make the most power, fuel needs to be adapted to it.

Do you use a strobe light to check ignition timing ?

[roger.rrgt]

I was not quite expecting it to start right away without the vacuum and fixed 0º and idle at 450 rpm . I think doing the ignition first if possible is the right way to do it.
My engine is a standart 1600cc aircooled, no performance parts other than a bigger oil pump (not that it makes any difference) and the dual 28mm throttle bodies. Compression ration must be in the 8's and the fuel is E27.

From what i searched, vacuum advance avarages at 10º and centrifugal around 20º. The calculator gave me a maximum advance of 47º. If you add both vac/cent values with a initial value of that 18º i found before, then the calculator values looks like a good starting point.

And no, i dont have a timing light, i am doing it the hard way. This week i will borrow a simple one from a friend and verify if 0 degrees is indeed zero. I am trusting this because i have set the trigger angle using a led light on the ign output to shine the timing mark at the pulley and it is working as it is, so any difference to the actual timing and what TS think it is should not be huge.