Help with building your Speeduino, installing it, getting it to run etc.
By Jansun
#13135
cx500tc wrote: Not just his curiosity, but mine too. ;)
I had a '76 V6 Capri, US, but it was carb'd.
Ah thats a nice one, a mark1 , like that model most. Have also one of this model, long term project..

The injectors is not what i espected.. 123 and 456. Dont understand it quite, they are wired per cilinder head (bank..?) What i know of, is that the inlet channel is also per cilinderhead seperated, almost to the inlet air valve. Maybe because of this?
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By PSIG
#13137
OK, cool. It would appear to be of low concern, as later versions were the pattern I listed. Whatever - go with it!

David
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By cx500tc
#13138
RichCreations wrote:
cx500tc wrote: Now, how is Speeduino going to be configured as a V6 for spark and two injector channels?
Tell it you have a TBI with two injectors? (like i am putting on my L6)
Sounds good, but consider a TBI sprays into a common plenum, allowing each cylinder to ingest fuel and air as needed. Port fuel injection doesn't allow such a luxury.
PSIG wrote:The injector banks/sets are already wired, and I am going to presume the factory identified the best sets, so I'd roll with it. I'm curious what the sets are on this one; but as a Cos/Cologne engine they are likely 1-2-4 and 3-5-6. Jansun, can you confirm the injector sets for my curiosity?

David
Given EEC-IV, they should be grouped by firing order, as in alternating, which would comply with @PSIG image of the V8, so would be 1,2,3 and 4,5,6.
...
And I did say: "group injectors by bank, i.e. 1,2,3 to INJ1 output, 4,5,6 to INJ2 output."
Which is confirmed:
Jansun wrote:The injectors is not what i espected.. 123 and 456....
But that is what I anticipated....

So, the hiccup here is that the engine, as wired, requires 3 squirts for each injector "bank" over 2 crankshaft revolutions, i.e. one squirt per "channel" every 240 degrees, but Speeduino gives 2 squirts over 2 revolutions, i.e. one squirt per "channel" every 360 degrees, hence why I asked about how to configure Speeduino / Tuner Studio to accommodate this.
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By PSIG
#13144
In all of this, don't forget this is a 60° V6, and how that affects strokes, cycles, and firing order ...

David
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By cx500tc
#13150
PSIG wrote:In all of this, don't forget this is a 60° V6, and how that affects strokes, cycles, and firing order ...

David
Yep. And the journal throws on 1/4, 2/5, 3/6 are offset to accommodate the 60* included angle.
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By PSIG
#13154
Jansun wrote:The injectors is not what i espected.. 123 and 456. Dont understand it quite, they are wired per cilinder head (bank..?) What i know of, is that the inlet channel is also per cilinderhead seperated, almost to the inlet air valve. Maybe because of this?
What I was looking for in the discussion was why yours is one way (1-2-3/4-5-6), and later production all went to different sets (1-2-4/3-5-6). The reason is cycle sensing, using a #1 indicator much like a cam sensor, so later versions know not only each TDC, but also which half of the 720° cycle it's in.

As yours does not know which cycle it's in, the sets are grouped alternating (123-456), just as the firing order is:
Image
Later versions know which cycle it's on, and can fire all of the injectors on the opposite cycle, which apparently provides slightly better mixture control. So, when the system knows it is firing spark on cylinder #1 (it is on the cycle firing 1-4-2), it is firing fuel into the next 360° cycle (5-3-6). Cycle 1 (0-360°) in yellow, and 2 (360-720°) in blue:
Image
If you ever add a cam sensor you might find a slight improvement changing the injection sets to the later style. Without that added info, it would be random if the engine was on the best cycle, and running quality would likely be just as random.

David
By Jansun
#13179
:o what a lot of information haha didnt expect that mutch comments :D

I see your point psig. And also i still see the issue on inj channels vs real injected mseconds cx500tc refers to. Im gonna give it a tought, iam getting back to it

Thx guys 8-)
By Jansun
#13215
I think i do understand the difference in fuel economy etc and injector wiring. But not colpletely.. To understand it better i was searching for a timing diagram of an 4 stroke engine. A diagram with tdc, opening and closing times from the valves, opening time of the injectors ect.

Anybody known of a good site for this?
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By PSIG
#13217
It's not so much the timing of specific events, as the change in mixture/AFR as one cylinder 'steals' fuel from another, along with other effects such as vaporization from dwell and wall wetting, etc. While lots of theory can be thrown at this subject, it usually comes down to experimentation to capture the effects not anticipated, along with how strong various effects actually are in a specific combination. In other words—go try different combinations and simply use what works best. ;)

I have not found a really good one-stop synopsis or overview yet, and pieces are from various efforts on specific regimes, such as high-rpm power, MPG/LPK competitions, emissions reductions, etc. The alternatives are deep study courses or research reports that expect far more investment. Go run your engine!

David
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By cx500tc
#13219
PSIG wrote:It's not so much the timing of specific events, as the change in mixture/AFR as one cylinder 'steals' fuel from another, along with other effects such as vaporization from dwell and wall wetting, etc. While lots of theory can be thrown at this subject, it usually comes down to experimentation to capture the effects not anticipated, along with how strong various effects actually are in a specific combination. In other words—go try different combinations and simply use what works best. ;)

I have not found a really good one-stop synopsis or overview yet, and pieces are from various efforts on specific regimes, such as high-rpm power, MPG/LPK competitions, emissions reductions, etc. The alternatives are deep study courses or research reports that expect far more investment. Go run your engine!

David
You didn't see the video? "Charge stealing" fuel isn't so much of an issue with this Cologne V6 as it is port injected with individual runners to the ports. I think it is / was an EEC-IV controlled engine; think of it as an injected 5.0L Mustang with 2 cylinders lopped off the back end. ;)

Anyhow, it seems you are as flummoxed as I about this, with regards to firing 2 banks 'equitably' on this V6. Speeduino fires each channel once per revolution, but that doesn't work out quite right for this. It would probably work, but as you rightly point out, wall wetting and such may be an issue.
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