Any questions you have before you begin buying, building and installing.
#62035
In the meantime my take-away is that I need to set fixed/locked timing to yes AND set the value to 10, adjust trigger angle until the mark on the balancer lines up with the notch on the block? Is this assumption correct...?
Assuming the mechanic is correct

You should set the locked timing to zero, and alter the trigger angle until the marks line up.
By dazq
#62044
If you are using the dstage controller then afaik he has an input on that for idle control
#62045
LPG2CV wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 6:44 pm
In the meantime my take-away is that I need to set fixed/locked timing to yes AND set the value to 10, adjust trigger angle until the mark on the balancer lines up with the notch on the block? Is this assumption correct...?
Assuming the mechanic is correct

You should set the locked timing to zero, and alter the trigger angle until the marks line up.
Yes, you should do it this way. With the timing locked, the EST 10* does not come into play, so you need to match what the timing marks indicate.
#62062
Alright, another day another step closer.

I locked the timing at 0* and adjusted the trigger angle until the two marks lined up perfectly. The trigger angle turned out to be -31*. The spark table is the same as Apollards and the VE table looks like this:
Screen Shot 2023-03-24 at 6.24.39 PM.png
Screen Shot 2023-03-24 at 6.24.39 PM.png (318.5 KiB) Viewed 631 times
On the hose the boat starts, idles and revs pretty well. I guess my next step is to work out whether I need to do anything more about the idle setup. As far as I can see there is no IAC valve and no other stepper motors in the throttle body to control the idle. I'm basing this off of the 8 pins in the throttle body representing the two potentiometers (3 pins each) and the stepper motor that controls the butterfly (2 pins).

If the idle is controlled by the timing and fuel alone I guess my next step is to make adjustments in the driveway by bringing in the WBO2 sensor and more advanced features of TunerStudio. Is this correct or is there more to consider before moving forward?
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#62064
Izzy46 wrote: Fri Mar 24, 2023 3:32 pm Alright, another day another step closer.

I locked the timing at 0* and adjusted the trigger angle until the two marks lined up perfectly. The trigger angle turned out to be -31*. The spark table is the same as Apollards and the VE table looks like this:

Screen Shot 2023-03-24 at 6.24.39 PM.png

On the hose the boat starts, idles and revs pretty well. I guess my next step is to work out whether I need to do anything more about the idle setup. As far as I can see there is no IAC valve and no other stepper motors in the throttle body to control the idle. I'm basing this off of the 8 pins in the throttle body representing the two potentiometers (3 pins each) and the stepper motor that controls the butterfly (2 pins).

If the idle is controlled by the timing and fuel alone I guess my next step is to make adjustments in the driveway by bringing in the WBO2 sensor and more advanced features of TunerStudio. Is this correct or is there more to consider before moving forward?
You missed my post above

You don't need additional iac valve ,steppers etc.

The dstage controller has an iac input (depends on which version you have) that you connect to speedy in place of an iac valve.
That way the dstage controller moves the main butterfly flap to control the idle according to the input signal it gets from speedy.

Oh and the two pins on the throttle body go to a normal motor for the butterfly, it's not a stepper.
#62090
So I hooked up pin 37 (PWM Idle) on Speeduino to the DStage IAC input. I now find myself staring down another rabbit hole :geek: :? :)

I did some light experimentation with a few of the idle settings. Non of the settings I changed seemed to have any impact on the idle speed. I had a go with just closed loop and with closed + open loop control.

I want to set the idle to 750 rpm but it seems that without changing the spark table it is not possible to get below 750 rpm?

From my understanding, the throttle butterfly is resting at a 99% closed position and only has the option to open thus increasing air flow and increasing idle speed. Is it correct to assume that I need to get below 750 rpm before idle PID can signal the throttle controller to open the butterfly and approach the desired rpm?

I'm currently exploring Youtube on how to do this stage of the tune. What is the best way to approach this?

Thanks
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#62099
Izzy46 wrote: Sun Mar 26, 2023 3:04 pmI want to set the idle to 750 rpm but it seems that without changing the spark table it is not possible to get below 750 rpm?
The TB controller should force the blade closed for idle control. Most ETBs are set with a limp-home throttle opening, spec'd by the OEM, commonly quite high-idle. Check your manuals for the spec rpm your engine should idle at when the TB motor is disconnected. Adjust your fuel to achieve minimum MAP, and adjust timing to reach that spec.

The controllers use an H-bridge (polarity reversing), instead of just one output power transistor (single polarity power), allowing it to 'reverse' the drive direction of the TB motor. When re-connected, the controller will then force the TB open or closed to match desired TB blade angle indicated by your throttle position. Some controllers will then alter the throttle position signal slightly in order to target an idle speed signal fed by the ECM. That should help to answer your remaining questions.
#62126
The TB controller should force the blade closed for idle control. Most ETBs are set with a limp-home throttle opening, spec'd by the OEM, commonly quite high-idle. Check your manuals for the spec rpm your engine should idle at when the TB motor is disconnected.
I had a read through the manual and found that power reduction mode is 2000 rpm and recommended idle is 650 ± 50. I remember when I had a throttle potentiometer mismatch out on the water where the computer cut the throttle and allowed us to drive at a little below 1000 rpm.
Adjust your fuel to achieve minimum MAP, and adjust timing to reach that spec.
I have been adjusting fuel and timing but it seems difficult to get below 40 kPa or below 750 rpm.

I tried approaching the problem from a different perspective by checking to see if the Idle Settings are having any effect at all. I set Idle Control Type to Open Loop and adjusted the IAC PWM and Cranking Duty before cranking the engine to see if the butterfly would open. There seemed to be no change regardless of changes in the Valve Duty, or Idle Valve Direction settings. I also made the same adjustments while the engine was running without any change to the idle.

I have checked other forum posts and 120 Hz seems to be a viable setting for Idle Valve Frequency(Hz) for the Dstage controller.
pkagiantas has also tested the IAC input with 120Hz PWM signal and I'm happy to announce it is working exactly as intended :mrgreen: With 100%/DC at the input throttle is opened to about 20%.
I opened up the computer to check that pin 37 is connect to the IAC pad on the Dstage board. As far as I can tell everything seems in order.

At the moment I'm at a bit of a loss as to what to do next.....
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By PSIG
#62127
At this point you cannot begin serious tuning until you have a working throttle control that will allow full rpm range (650 to redline). I would first verify the ETB control is all working properly. The D-Stage threads are probably the place for that.
#62129
40 kpa is about the best you'll get with that cam.

Since you had ETB errors before, are you sure the throttle body is functioning? As David says, that is best on another thread, but something to consider.
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