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Does a 22RE board already exist???

PostPosted:Thu May 06, 2021 5:29 am
by thewanderlustking
Hello everyoneI My first post. Currently, I am MegaSquirting a 1986 Toyota Mini Cruiser. Essentially, a 1985 Pickup with the 22RE in it, and a serious overweight issue, LOL! LONGGG time MS user with more than a few installs under my belt. Many more. Working on a Miata project and I came across some interesting boards. No surprise that many of those led me here to Speeduino.

But imagine my surprise tonight when I was reading through stuff here tonight and saw what looked like my donor Toyota ECU sitting next to one of the speeding boards. Closer examination revealed a few minor component differences, but the MK1 Mazda miata and my 22RE board. I had to go back out into the workshop and grab a spare Mazda ECU, and sure enough, REALLY close. I still had the brackets on and hadn't realized just how close they were.

I haven't looked into the ignition input circuits yet to see how compatible they are. Most of the Toyota VAST info out there is actually pretty outdated to begin with. So this might not be a simple open and compare. But both the OEM ECUs for the Toyota and Mazda appear to be pretty similar inside...

The Toyota uses a Nippon Denso 42 pin connector. Well three actually. 10p 18p and 14p.

There are some other interesting things I discovered. Speeduino boards are apparently pin compatible with MS3 Pro modules. AND anyone knowing the price of one of those already knows why I am now here... :shock:

Re: Does a 22RE board already exist???

PostPosted:Thu May 06, 2021 6:49 am
by Chris Wolfson
I did some MS installing too. MS has simply reached a price level that is ridiculous. No innovation, just anything the same since MSextra arrived. All "new" features are basically fixing decade old problems or long overdue updates.. Some cosmetics and a huge price tag for fancy new cases. That is classic marketing. I can not see any need to replace an older MS with a newer, 4 times as expensive one. The more you dive into Speeduino, the more you will realize how much potenzial it has.
Have a nice trip!

Re: Does a 22RE board already exist???

PostPosted:Thu May 06, 2021 7:02 am
by PSIG
With your MS experience, use care to stop, read, and think before doing stuff, as Speeduino is not MS, and the little but many differences can screw you up if you lose focus. All the basic EFI concepts for any system are similar, but operation and function mean some relearning of old habits. ;) Have fun!

Re: Does a 22RE board already exist???

PostPosted:Thu May 06, 2021 7:13 am
by stum
There is a cool interface board (but still a DIY) that allow's you to adapt from the Standard Toyota plugs to the IDC40 on a V0.4x board. I have used one on my 3vz-fe Toyota. Brilliant

https://wtmtronics.com/product/ss-obd1/

I also 3dprinted a case for mine

viewtopic.php?f=19&t=1465&p=49876&hilit=3vz+fe#p41395

Re: Does a 22RE board already exist???

PostPosted:Thu May 06, 2021 7:49 am
by thewanderlustking
MS has gone from its very grassroots DIY approach, to Pro. Thanks to PROAutotune lol. I get why and how it happened. And in many ways I am glad it did. The hardware is SOLID. And now there are PNP options ou there fo so so many things. But at the current pricing, they NEED to be PNP. I wish they would get back to some much less expensive DIY options.

There seriously is nothing cooler than a car starting on the first key twist of an ECU you completely soldered together yourself. EPIC! Enough so I will spend a few extra hours in prep just to have that moment go perfect.

Where I really disagree, is with the way they handle licensing. For instance MS3. If I have an MS3 Pro module (899) I can install it on any user designed board. But an MS3 standard daughter card I am only allowed to install on genuine B&G board. The Daughtercard is $230 or $280 (I forget) and it has more options and is a better card in my opinion.

It is like the customer who buys windshield wipers and installs them VS the one that goes to the automotive shop, buys and pays for them to install them. Then there are the real special ones who think they have saved a few dollars (sure, they have too but whatever) and buys their own wipers, THEN brings them to the shop and pays us to to them on. These are the ones I worry about their intelligence level the most. Well the ones that think they can only go to the dealership do win, but they are in a whole other world of dumb.

Then there is the guy who has figured out how to hack the system. He goes to AutoZone and buys his wipers, then gets them to put them on for FREE. Those boards are out there for MS3... Although in the case of MS, this is against licensing...

Well I have a lot of questions about Speeduino I am not finding the answers to. The hardware side is fairly straight forward. My MS background covers most of that. I think where I have to be careful is configuring the boards on the software side. I have not been able to find a single video that gives me clues as to how the tuning and configuration is handled (behind the closed door).

Does Speeduino use .msq files (or similar) to handle tunes and tune changes? I have a very robust tuning process that allows me to move backward or forward in the process quickly if need be. I have seen a couple suggestions of having spare Arduino processors to save configurations. I don't get why one would, if you can save that tune file like you can with MS...

Re: Does a 22RE board already exist???

PostPosted:Thu May 06, 2021 8:32 am
by stum
My understanding is both use or can use Tuner Studio. So from a config, setup and tuning (and roll back) it uses the same tool set you are use to.

Re: Does a 22RE board already exist???

PostPosted:Thu May 06, 2021 9:07 am
by theonewithin
Have you had a look at the wiki?

I myself detest videos. The info is given out far to slowly and made for lowest common denominator.

Give me text i can read nice and quickly, can print out and take with me anywhere and i can scribble notes on.

Speeduino uses Tunerstudio just like MS.

Tunes are completely incompatible. Settings are different. The way things work and named are different.

Read through the wiki. It covers the vast majority.

Re: Does a 22RE board already exist???

PostPosted:Thu May 06, 2021 4:35 pm
by Chris Wolfson
You can print out text, read it and make notes with your hand and a pencil? You can concentrate on a subject for an hour? You are one of a dying minority.

I hate video clips, because they are to long and boring, or to fast with too much useless information. If you start watching some to learn or solve a problem, you waste huge amounts of time. Finally there are many that are straight out wrong, made by idiots. Don't mention the usual music. Know what? A stupid video might get more attention in a month than the Speeduino Wiki in the whole time it is online. Welcome to the new world. Did I mention alternative facts? If a fact does not please you, just ignore it and replace it with one you like better.

The average modern adult has an attention time of 4 seconds. If you do not trigger his interest in this short time, he shuts down and looks at his smartphone instead of you. I really don't know what these "new human's" can learn, if anything.

Any time you write "read the Wiki" I giggle.

Good day!

Re: Does a 22RE board already exist???

PostPosted:Fri May 07, 2021 12:18 pm
by thewanderlustking
I agree with everything said against videos lol. Bu there is one for. They annoy the Sh!+ out of my boss. Videos are actually good to listen to (sometimes) in the background especially on a subject I am not real familiar with. Then I can look at anything that sounds interesting, or just listen and absorb, It is great for when I am working on a wrenching job I need to crank out, but only need half a brain to do.

When I am doing mods on a board or really studying something, I print it out and sit down and read. And I also tend to use a pencil LOL!

Re: Does a 22RE board already exist???

PostPosted:Fri May 07, 2021 8:46 pm
by thewanderlustking
stum wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 7:13 am
There is a cool interface board (but still a DIY) that allow's you to adapt from the Standard Toyota plugs to the IDC40 on a V0.4x board. I have used one on my 3vz-fe Toyota. Brilliant

https://wtmtronics.com/product/ss-obd1/

I also 3dprinted a case for mine

viewtopic.php?f=19&t=1465&p=49876&hilit=3vz+fe#p41395
I have the 22RE with 3 connectors. 10T 18T 14T for a total 42 pins. I did some digging, that won't fit. I have combed the internet for several hours trying to find ANYTHING on that 22RE connector.

For me, it doesn't matter. I can easily roll my own. But the project has another target goal in mind. I want a recipe others can follow that would not normally be turning to EFI as a solution. See, motorhomes get horrible gas mileage. 8mpg is about the norm. Our Toyota Motorhomes do better though, WAY better. They get 12-15mpg. But I have taken a pretty good look at the very outdated fuel system and I am certain I can improve on it some more.

I am going to start this adventure with a MegaSquirt. I have plenty on hand to utilize. But Speeduino is not only something new to look at, it looks like an inexpensive solution might even be able to be put together. The more plug and play, the better.

This is the kinda thing that, even for me, it is hard to justify spending a fortune on. If I didn't have them on hand, I wouldn't go buy a MegaSquirt for this project. There is a PNP available for the 22RE on DIYAutotune's website. It is $799. This is actually pretty reasonable for a PNP standalone. But for somebody just hoping to get better gas mileage and MAYBE learn some more about EFI? Not really affordable.

My original question "Does a 22RE board already exist?" has a lot hidden behind it. I actually started a conversation with the board builder I mentioned that brought me here from my first post. He has a Miata board that I can use with MegaSquirt. I actually have a full kit for that on the way.

Well it turns out the boards for the Miata and the Toyota mount into basically the same exact cases. Plugs are different making the case slightly different, but the actual PCB for either is almost identical with identical mounting points. Ignition input signal circuit only needs a small resistor change, if even that.

I haven't done a deep dive on the output side of it yet to compare the Mazda and Toyota. I plan on doing that here shortly after I print out some information. And get a pencil sharpened!

Alright, let's ask a different question. With a board and case limitation that of a Miata ECU, what would be the Speeduino setup to go with? I need some room in the case for hookup, either cutting the PCB from the 22RE and soldering point to point, an adapter board (that I haven't found yet), or possibly even a Miata or Toyota adapter. I might be able to get the 22RE plug to solder to one of those adapter boards.

(I didn't see board sizes listed in the wiki BTW, that would be helpful to know!)

I am okay with just 2 injector drivers, but I want 4 ignition drivers for future use. I want to COP this engine. Already have coils on hand that will work too.

I am thinking the Speeduino v0.3.x looks the part. But again there are no sizes listed. I would prefer a DIY solder it yourself option, but that isn't absolutely necessary. I just enjoy soldering.