Any questions you have before you begin buying, building and installing.
#34345
New to this forum. Have been active on the GW forums for a few years. Have a preference for fuel injection and in this regard, have a 1985 Goldwing Limited Edition fuel injected bike as my daily rider. Have been refurbishing it for the past 3 1/2 years, do work - ride, repeat. Have done research and work on the CFI system that is the third iteration of FI for Honda motorcycles. The work done by Honda in the early '80s set the stage for Honda's PGM-FI system.

The CFI system on my '85 LTD has the following:

Throttle position sensor operated by the left engine cylinder throttle linkage.
Crank sensor (Ns) - 2 positions for install, exactly 180 degrees apart and either position works without any change to the CFI system - have had the Ns sensor installed in both positions. 8 tooth trigger wheel.
Dual cam sensors (Gr/Gl) operating off the back end of the right cylinder head. Single tooth.
Dual MAP sensors (PBR/PBL) .
No O2 sensor.

The spark system is a wasted spark. The injectors are bank to bank - 1/3 and 2/4. Firing order is 1/3/2/4.

The CFI system is integrated with the travel computer and LCD dash. The travel computer uses some of the ECU and sensor outputs so want to keep this functionality.

The basic CFI system schematic is:
EFI Schematic.jpg
EFI Schematic.jpg (223.98 KiB) Viewed 9345 times
There is a passive IAC circuit installed with reed valves and a thermostatic air control valve. Apparently Speeduino can accommodate this type of circuit for idle. The IAC system is also used to admit air past the throttle plates during deceleration on the road. Air bypasses the throttle plates to prevent "choking" the cylinders.

The impetus for doing this replacement/upgrade is that this is older technology, and should the ECU fail, OEM replacement units are not readily available and when these ECUs are available, a used unit is quite expensive.

I have been looking at the Megasquirt family of EMS, and commented about this on the CX500-650 turbo forum, and it was there that the Speeduino project was mentioned.

I have done a read in to the Speeduino literature as well as read forum articles, viewed videos and such, and while the Megasquirt line of EMS products have been out longer, development of the MS code has not been actively developed for the past 5 years or so. The Speeduino project has very similar functionality, missing functions such as ITB control mode, but otherwise, a very similar product. The Speeduino project is still being changed/modified/upgraded/developed which is a good reason to investigate this product.

Looking forward to learning more about the Speeduino project. Cheers
#34350
Welcome, Ernest. It appears you have been doing your homework. :) Random comments to your intro-post:
This is a very straightforward addition for 'piggyback' on your OEM ECM, in order to retain direct communications with other display or features. Note that while the sensor inputs to your features are still valid, possibly others such as MPG will reflect the original ECM values rather than the new actual values produced by Speeduino. I don't know your plans, but it may be possible to output the data from Speeduino to your features instead, fully replacing the original ECM as a second-step.

Yours is of course only 2-channel injection, and 2-ch ignition, so a small unit such as the NO2C could do well replacing it with no harness wiring changes. If however you wished to explore other modes, a 4-ch unit would allow full-sequential injection and ignition, individual cylinder fuel trim, etc, if that's of interest to you at this point. A simple 2-ch conversion for now, and upgrading later to 4-ch is an easy option, and I'm sure others in your circles would take advantage of purchasing your proven and ready hand-me-downs. ;)

It sounds like your trigger will most easily work using the Ns and only one of the G cycle sensors, in an 8/1 (not 8-1) dual-wheel configuration. The stock low-Z injectors and OEM resistor box are fine, though you will need to create or find injector latency (dead time) and coil dwell values for Speedy to use. Using Speedy as a piggyback requires a couple minor mods to allow sharing signals. No biggie. The IAC bypass function is to reduce engine braking as a luxury function, much like older Cadillacs, and Speeduino is fine with that. Speeduino is not missing "ITB Mode" — it just isn't called that, as Speeduino allows the feature to be used in multiple modes, rather than just for ITBs. ;) I look forward to your project thread!

David
#34351
David - thank you for the reply. Have done a quick look at the NO2C board, features are similar to the Microsquirt unit. I expect that I would still need the Arduino Mega 2560 Rev 3 board regardless of the the Speeduino board chosen. My intention is to replace the OEM ECU completely and keep the OEM ancillary system(s) functionality. The one aspect of the 4 channel unit that is appealing is the full sequential ignition possibility. From my reading, there appears to be nothing gained from changing to full sequential fueling.

Good analogy with regards to the IAC system on my '85 LTD. Without air flowing to the cylinder(s) the engine would act like an engine brake.

An issue I have being north of the 49th is that costs seem to be similar regarding the NO2C and V0.4 boards, in this case, better to go with one that I can upgrade specific aspects at a later date. The least expensive Arduino Mega 2560 Rev 3 board I can find here in the north is $49.00 plus tax plus shipping. There is a Bluetooth unit that is quite interesting for another $8.00.

You mention "Speedy". I take it this is the colloquial term of endearment for the Speeduino.

I am presently reading the Speeduino manual. I will be purchasing the Aduino board and Tuner Studio (Tuner Studio because it's used with either MS or Speeduino). I will also be registering the Tuner Studio to support the product.

There are several threads on the GW forums and I will look specifically for injector information. Lots of good help there as well.

I found an informative video about the MS and Speeduino installs. The fellow had the Speeduino installed in place of the MS unit, but was commenting on both. The main point he stressed was to READ, and then READ again. Be familiar with your OEM install, and the EMS unit you intended to install. The better your preparation, the better are your chances for success, and in doing so, a lot less heartache.

I have some mechanical work to be done on the bike engine. Did the heads this past winter - found the source of fuel smell on start, oil leaking past #2 cylinder rings. Going to take the engine apart, take the block in and have the cylinders honed to remove the glaze that has developed over the past 34 years, and install new rings. I want the engine to be as good as it gets before I do the conversion.

In the mean time I will be reading, and doing off line learning with Tuner Studio and the Arduino board. I will also be posting my observations and things learned so as to keep my thoughts on track. I find posting every now and then keeps me focused.

Thanks again for the comment. Cheers
#34353
Thanks for the info regarding the UA4C. Haven't played with PCBs since I went to college in the '80s, lots of cobwebs, and a steep learning curve. Will be perusing this site regarding these different boards and the potential applicability to my project.

Have finished my first read of the manual, and additional wiki information; hardware requirements/sensor calibration/idle. This is a good start. Well laid out to my thinking. The manual dated 16 Feb 2019 has some areas that need to be published, but enough information is incorporated - I did notice a Megasquirt reference. This along with review of this forum, YouTube videos, should get me going.

I downloaded Tuner Studio lite, but will upgrade to a registered version, and thinking about investing in MegaLog Viewer.

Cheers
#34354
If you do the tuning yourself MegaLogViewer is nice to work whit.
But you also need a wide band O2 sensor.
May I suggest
https://www.14point7.com/products/spart ... ntroller-2
It has its controller build in the connector.
Its completely water tight and has no gauge.
Communication and delivering times of 14point7 aren't that great but it is good stuff.
Since you are doing engine work at the moment might be good to order one now.
If you decide to use a spartan2 of course. :D
#34366
Think it's time to move this subject to the User Projects thread. Intend to do all further posts there. Here's the link: viewtopic.php?f=19&t=2792

Thanks to those who have taken the time to read my thread so far, and to those who have provided info on a way ahead.

Cheers
#34372
Rednaxs60 wrote: Sat May 04, 2019 2:22 am… - I did notice a Megasquirt reference. This along with review of this forum, YouTube videos, should get me going.
Image Be careful to use Speeduino-specific info whenever possible. While all EFI systems are similar in many ways, and hardware is hardware; Speeduino is not MS, and it has confounded many users that try to translate one to the other, or borrow setup or functional concepts between them.
;)
David
#34374
PSIG wrote: Sat May 04, 2019 5:19 pm
Rednaxs60 wrote: Sat May 04, 2019 2:22 am… - I did notice a Megasquirt reference. This along with review of this forum, YouTube videos, should get me going.
Image Be careful to use Speeduino-specific info whenever possible. While all EFI systems are similar in many ways, and hardware is hardware; Speeduino is not MS, and it has confounded many users that try to translate one to the other, or borrow setup or functional concepts between them.
;)
David
Intend to such. Following Josh Stewart, CEK Garage, and SidneyCritic Comedy Hound to start. All good information, and very specific. Cheers
#34387
Rednaxs60 wrote: Sat May 04, 2019 12:10 am… The one aspect of the 4 channel unit that is appealing is the full sequential ignition possibility. From my reading, there appears to be nothing gained from changing to full sequential fueling.
BTW, sequential ignition has no notable benefits in your engine layout and rpm range, though the spark plugs may last longer. ;) In other layouts it can be, for correction of crankshaft (indexing) errors or benefits of individual cylinder ignition trim (ICIT), which Speeduino doesn't have yet. We have the fuel trims (ICFT), and I hope we have the other half of the partnership with ICIT one day.

On the other hand, sequential fuel can have detectable benefits, especially for best fuel distribution and efficiency at specific rpm and loads, and delivery response can be better depending on comparative modes. However, you are nearly correct in that the benefits, while potential, are quite small. Better is better, but the gains are not at the scale some would hope or advertise. To make that brass ring even more difficult to grasp, the tune must be very good before tuning of the beneficial features can be attempted or realized. Most users would not know the difference or take the time to find it. Perhaps you would one day in your project progression!

david
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