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PCB for Electromotive Tec3r

PostPosted:Tue Oct 06, 2020 8:29 pm
by R42BUG
Hi
I buy along time ago a Tec3r (about 10 years) never installed until this year, I'm working in a mid engine v8 vw bug, after all the wire is done I check inputs and all looks find, and decide to upgrade firmware and Tec3r bricked (never run car) I contact electromotive support and they said this is common in this Ecu's due the serial comunication problems and need to send unit to repair, the repair cost is about $100 + $313 to hardware upgrade to WinTec4 to avoid serial communication trouble + shipping (from Mexico) $120 for Mex-Usa and Usa-Mex for that mony I think I go to made my own board. My engine have Low Z injectors and 4 waste spark dumb coils. The goal is to keep current harness (I dont want to rewire ecu) I try to mach this board to tec3r pinout.
So this is my project please check the board and pointme in errors and improvements.
Specs:

8 injection chanels (Peak & Hold)
6 ignition chanels (for dum coils)
6 1.5A current chanels (1 PWM Teensy 3.5, 2 PWM Teensy 3.6) (Fan, Fuel Pump, etc.)
IDLE out
stepper motor
Bluetooth on Serial 2
UD-/UD+ from Teensy to DB9 connector
Clutch control
Tachometer out
5V power supply for sensors
Two O2 sensor input
CAN on DB9 connector
Manifold air temperature sensor input
Coolant temperature sensor input
Throttle position sensor input
Map sensor input for external sensor
Internal Map sensor 3 Bar
Two HALL input or VR (Crank/Cam)
Two VSS inputs (for external board)
Check Engine output (led)
Knock sensor input (for external board)
1 Analog input (for extra sensor)
All digital and analog signal shift level for 3.3v (for use on teensy 3.6)

https://github.com/hugovw1976/ECU_R42_8INJ_8IGN

Re: PCB for Electromotive Tec3r

PostPosted:Tue Oct 06, 2020 9:23 pm
by fram
Hi Just check the schematic really fast:
- You have Baro signal but no device (only MAP device in the schematic)
- Missing filters for all the analog inputs.
- Stepper driver: add a signal to drive enable pin (you could disable if not used)
- Bluetooth: PIO1 could be fitted with a LED as output to check the BT trafic
- I'm a bit afraid about the IGBT, especially because you'll use the internal 12V of the ECU to feed them. IMHO would be nice to have external 12V, same as the ingnition coil to feed the IGBT.
- About injector diagram: do you have any experience with the current schematic?
- Knock level converter: did you perform some tests about knock sensor ? (this function is not yet available from Speeduino FW)

;)

Re: PCB for Electromotive Tec3r

PostPosted:Tue Oct 06, 2020 9:35 pm
by fram
Try to check the PCB, but would be easier with gerber :ugeek:
2 First things:
-Your BT module will not work proprely, because it is in the middle of the board, and antenna of the module is close to ground plan.
-You should really considere to go for a 4 layers board for this kind of design. I'm a bit afraid you'll catch a lot of noise in some critical signals , ground loop or other issue without a full and clean ground plan.

Re: PCB for Electromotive Tec3r

PostPosted:Tue Oct 06, 2020 11:34 pm
by R42BUG
fram wrote:
Tue Oct 06, 2020 9:23 pm
Hi Just check the schematic really fast:
- You have Baro signal but no device (only MAP device in the schematic)
- Missing filters for all the analog inputs.
- Stepper driver: add a signal to drive enable pin (you could disable if not used)
- Bluetooth: PIO1 could be fitted with a LED as output to check the BT trafic
- I'm a bit afraid about the IGBT, especially because you'll use the internal 12V of the ECU to feed them. IMHO would be nice to have external 12V, same as the ingnition coil to feed the IGBT.
- About injector diagram: do you have any experience with the current schematic?
- Knock level converter: did you perform some tests about knock sensor ? (this function is not yet available from Speeduino FW)

;)
fram wrote:
Tue Oct 06, 2020 9:35 pm
Try to check the PCB, but would be easier with gerber :ugeek:
2 First things:
-Your BT module will not work proprely, because it is in the middle of the board, and antenna of the module is close to ground plan.
-You should really considere to go for a 4 layers board for this kind of design. I'm a bit afraid you'll catch a lot of noise in some critical signals , ground loop or other issue without a full and clean ground plan.

<>Baro mislabeled is internal MAP
<>Working in add filters
<>Working in add EN signal
<>Bluetooth : I need to modify board to ad external antenna Tec3r Aluminum case.
<>Tec3r have external conextion for ground with free extra pin I can use this for 12v for IGBT
<>No experience just the same diagram I found on many forums if I search for Peak & hold injector board
<>No just added for future.
<>Ok I work in a 4 layer pcb I just try to keep low coast on 2 layer board

Re: PCB for Electromotive Tec3r

PostPosted:Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:27 am
by Jamppo
My friend had similar troubles with tec3 and our resolution was separate all drivers from original cpu and put ms2 board in to control tec3 drivers. Car is still running that combo ( could be close to 10 years now).

Re: PCB for Electromotive Tec3r

PostPosted:Wed Oct 07, 2020 12:32 pm
by R42BUG
Jamppo wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:27 am
My friend had similar troubles with tec3 and our resolution was separate all drivers from original cpu and put ms2 board in to control tec3 drivers. Car is still running that combo ( could be close to 10 years now).
Do you have more info on this mod?

Re: PCB for Electromotive Tec3r

PostPosted:Wed Oct 07, 2020 1:32 pm
by Jamppo
Our setup was 4 pair of injectors and 4 wasted spark coils with built in amplifiers (chevy 350 cid tpi engine).

I traced injector and ignition drivers from connector and cut traces from them to cpu and connected ms2 cpu outputs to those.
Idle stepper was controlled straight from ms2, original driver was connected parallel to ms but power was cut off from it.
Original map, tps, temp and crank (60-2 hall) sensors where used and wired from tec board to ms.

I cut power from original cpu:s, (there are more than one) and contraption worked just fine.

I do not have any details left from job but it was pretty straightforward and datasheets are available to used driver chips etc.

I think this could be done with speeduino without much problems. Most work is to create some kind of schematics from output drivers so you can tap new cpu to proper point.

Re: PCB for Electromotive Tec3r

PostPosted:Wed Oct 07, 2020 2:36 pm
by fram
@R42BUG
What is the purpose for the black cable?

Re: PCB for Electromotive Tec3r

PostPosted:Wed Oct 07, 2020 6:41 pm
by R42BUG
fram wrote:
Wed Oct 07, 2020 2:36 pm
@R42BUG
What is the purpose for the black cable?
From Tec3r manual:
A.5.a. Tec3-r Main Power Connections
The single BLACK wire (with its own connector) that protrudes from the Tec3-r ECU is the main
ground. The ground wire is 10awg. The reason for the larger/thicker size of the wire is that the ECU is
mainly in charge of switching the GROUNDS, not the +12 Volt power. As an example, the fuel injector and
coil outputs are all pull-to-grounds. The +12 Volt power is supplied on a harness that is external to the
Tec3-r.
I upload new schematic and gerber files of the 4 layer board

Re: PCB for Electromotive Tec3r

PostPosted:Thu Oct 08, 2020 5:24 am
by Alfagta
Inj3 and Inj8 Labels are crossed in the lastest schematic