[michaelovitch]

Hi,
I would like to know if it's possible to use an other input than a camshaft sensor to be able to run sequential injection on speeduino,and more importantly,if speeduino needs constantly the cam signal to run,or if it's learnig its signal on few rotations at each start up,and then ignore it ?

Somebody used a manifold pressure sensor to obtain a signal to locate cylinder 1 in the full engine 720° cycle,and the ecu used here ignore the signal after few cycles.

Here is his work :
https://youtu.be/ePzYxLYEROs

I'm a beginner,and i would like to use speeduino on my bike,for full sequential and E85.
Using a map sensor would allow me to avoid installing a cam sensor,but i need to know if the lack of vacuum at wide open throttle suppressing the input to the ecu would be a problem or not.

Thanks : )

[PSIG]

Hi,
I would like to know if it's possible to use an other input than a camshaft sensor to be able to run sequential injection on speeduino,and more importantly,if speeduino needs constantly the cam signal to run,or if it's learnig its signal on few rotations at each start up,and then ignore it ?

Hello! Yes, you can theoretically use any consistent 720° cycle signal as your "cam" signal. Searches here will show the use of MAP, sensors on cam lobes, rocker arms, valves, timing gears/wheels, etc. Unfortunately, using MAP can be difficult as the signals vary widely are are sometimes not useful at certain rpm as they are either very small or include secondary signals. [EDIT] The placement of the MAP source can be critical to finding a useful signal, as shown in some threads here such as TZ350's 2-stroke thread). I know of one person that used a dedicated MAP sensor directly to a common "smart" VR signal conditioner module; though I do not have details of setup or engine hardware. By all means, try it, and use it if it works in your setup.

Speeduino many need to re-sync, and so the signal should be continuously available in order to maintain full-sequential operation. It is important to note the answer to your question can be either yes or no, depending on the decoder being used. In the video, they are using a missing-tooth decoder, which does not need a cycle signal to run, and only to provide full-sequential. This is also true for Speeduino, and so if using a different decoder such as Dual Wheel, the system uses the cycle signal in order to establish primary wheel crank angle, rather than only to establish cycle, requiring the signal to always be available. This could be simple by providing a second dedicated MAP sensor (almost any available type as the signal is relative) as a full-time cycle sensor — if it can read properly at all rpm. Other issues with different decoders is the potential of timing drift due to dynamic movement of the pulses under different conditions. This would not be an issue with decoders using the signal only for cycle, such as Missing Tooth.

TL;DR — You can use many types of cycle signals, and you may be able to use MAP. Suggested with decoders using the signal for cycle only (not timing). Full-time signal suggested.

David

[tobbera]

There is a proposal on this functionality. This is something I really would like to see as well.

https://github.com/noisymime/speeduino/issues/145

viewtopic.php?f=18&t=1695&p=25451&hilit ... ing#p24741

https://www.bountysource.com/issues/600 ... rce=github

[PSIG]

I would note that the original request on GitHub was for sensing with a parallel (second dedicated) MAP sensor on only one cylinder, as I suggested above. This allows reading the intake depression or pressure across an entire cycle, avoiding the need to read small 'windows' in the crank rotation that multiple cylinders on one primary MAP sensor would require.

David

[theonewithin]

There is a proposal on this functionality. This is something I really would like to see as well.

https://github.com/noisymime/speeduino/issues/145

viewtopic.php?f=18&t=1695&p=25451&hilit ... ing#p24741

https://www.bountysource.com/issues/600 ... rce=github

Ignore the bounty. Will be getting cancelled due to nothing happening for 9 months.

[michaelovitch]

Hi,
I would like to know if it's possible to use an other input than a camshaft sensor to be able to run sequential injection on speeduino,and more importantly,if speeduino needs constantly the cam signal to run,or if it's learnig its signal on few rotations at each start up,and then ignore it ?

Hello! Yes, you can theoretically use any consistent 720° cycle signal as your "cam" signal. Searches here will show the use of MAP, sensors on cam lobes, rocker arms, valves, timing gears/wheels, etc. Unfortunately, using MAP can be difficult as the signals vary widely are are sometimes not useful at certain rpm as they are either very small or include secondary signals. [EDIT] The placement of the MAP source can be critical to finding a useful signal, as shown in some threads here such as TZ350's 2-stroke thread). I know of one person that used a dedicated MAP sensor directly to a common "smart" VR signal conditioner module; though I do not have details of setup or engine hardware. By all means, try it, and use it if it works in your setup.

Speeduino many need to re-sync, and so the signal should be continuously available in order to maintain full-sequential operation. It is important to note the answer to your question can be either yes or no, depending on the decoder being used. In the video, they are using a missing-tooth decoder, which does not need a cycle signal to run, and only to provide full-sequential. This is also true for Speeduino, and so if using a different decoder such as Dual Wheel, the system uses the cycle signal in order to establish primary wheel crank angle, rather than only to establish cycle, requiring the signal to always be available. This could be simple by providing a second dedicated MAP sensor (almost any available type as the signal is relative) as a full-time cycle sensor — if it can read properly at all rpm. Other issues with different decoders is the potential of timing drift due to dynamic movement of the pulses under different conditions. This would not be an issue with decoders using the signal only for cycle, such as Missing Tooth.

TL;DR — You can use many types of cycle signals, and you may be able to use MAP. Suggested with decoders using the signal for cycle only (not timing). Full-time signal suggested.

David

Thanks,
I get the first part,but not the others.
i still don't know when speduino needs the cam signal to run sequential,so if the vacuum disppearing at wide open throttle will be a problem or not.
As i understand i have to have a trigger wheel with a missing tooth to run the injection in all cases.
I was planning a dedicated MAP on cylinder one with a VR conditionner.

[michaelovitch]

.

[michaelovitch]

.

[michaelovitch]

I would note that the original request on GitHub was for sensing with a parallel (second dedicated) MAP sensor on only one cylinder, as I suggested above. This allows reading the intake depression or pressure across an entire cycle, avoiding the need to read small 'windows' in the crank rotation that multiple cylinders on one primary MAP sensor would require.

David

Yes,a MAP just for cylinder n1 since my bike have individual throttle bodies.
My point is just to avoid installing a cam sensor,so poking a hole in the valve cover,welding aluminium,and eventually buying a cam trigger wheel or making it.
It would be less costly,and more aesthetic.

[michaelovitch]

Speeduino many need to re-sync, and so the signal should be continuously available in order to maintain full-sequential operation. It is important to note the answer to your question can be either yes or no, depending on the decoder being used. In the video, they are using a missing-tooth decoder, which does not need a cycle signal to run, and only to provide full-sequential. This is also true for Speeduino, and so if using a different decoder such as Dual Wheel, the system uses the cycle signal in order to establish primary wheel crank angle, rather than only to establish cycle, requiring the signal to always be available. This could be simple by providing a second dedicated MAP sensor (almost any available type as the signal is relative) as a full-time cycle sensor — if it can read properly at all rpm. Other issues with different decoders is the potential of timing drift due to dynamic movement of the pulses under different conditions. This would not be an issue with decoders using the signal only for cycle, such as Missing Tooth.

TL;DR — You can use many types of cycle signals, and you may be able to use MAP. Suggested with decoders using the signal for cycle only (not timing). Full-time signal suggested.

David

Is somebody can help me to understand that ?
Why "may " need to resync,and when ?