For anything you'd like to see added to Speeduino
By miker
#50584
So at first glance that looks like 5 pulses on cam and gap on crank is one revolution, 2 pulses on cam and gap on crank equals opposite revolution.

Do you know if the vvc cam is the same as this?

Edited to add. Can you confirm the gap sizes? It looks like the gaps around the 5 tooth are bigger than the gap between 3 and 2 tooth. This makes sense as it means the total potential teeth would divide into 360.
(Gap + gap + 5 + gap + gap + 3 +gap + 2 = 15)
By Trevor Getty
#50588
So this is for a t series engine.
The cam in the k series is different which would also have a k series vvc cam option which may be different again.

I will get the information you require in more detail with injector 1 timing in it also.

I can also get scope picture for the other variants if you want them now.
I have a mgf vvc and non vvc here which are known as k series.
So I believe we have 4 crank patterns to cover. I am not sure how many cam patterns.

What we know.
Crank. Cam. Rover engine / Model
17g17g. 5gg3gg2g? T16 distrib based.
? N/a. T16 wasted spark
? ? K series non vvc
? ? K series vvc


You already have these other patterns, I will confirm later tonight the 4gap pattern for the later non dizzy t16 which is the 2nd item above. So we know which of the remaining crank items we can check off
17gap17gap. Done.
3 gap 14 gap 2 gap 13 gap
2 gap 14 gap 3 gap 13 gap
11 gap 5 gap 12 gap 4 gap
By miker
#50590
The k series non vvc is a single tooth ( well 1 large tooth but we only see the falling edge so it might as well be a single tooth). If the rover engines use a hall sensor for the cam let me know as their is code elsewhere to detect if the cam is high or low and we sync faster than looking for the edge.
By Trevor Getty
#50595
No problem. I will get vvc and non vvc scoped images taken over weekend. Amazon delivery says the new scope arrives tomorrow.

When testing the new ecu crank signals work on speedy can I splice the signal to the original ecu and speedy at same time so that the car runs and then check that speedy indicates rpm and running?

Or do I need to output the injector and coil outputs all at the same time to test it? I was just hoping for a quick test on the cars I am not adapting now that we could just take cam and crank where applicable and put it into speedy. If its a high impedence circuit it shouldn't take a big load and drop the amplitude too much but you hopefully have better experience here with this one.
By miker
#50602
Ideal is crank, cam and cylinder 1 ignition ( as that implies that after that event is the start which of the first 360 degrees).

However I've based the k series trigger stuff off rover manuals so ignition 1 isn't essential on those except for vvc which didn't feature. If you can't we can guess and see if it works, if it doesn't we flip the code and try again.
By Trevor Getty
#50623
Here is scope picture with crank cam and spark1 In shot full rotation of cam 360, crank 720.

Also I've attached pictures of the cam shaft teeth it's very hard to make out if it's meant to be a 14 tooth or a 15 tooth. How fully a paint package or something can help here although the scope detail helps now also.

I would label these 2 entries under rover so far something like this if that's ok. Or however u list its just rover users will know mems1.6 more than a 17-1 crank wheel lol.

Rover - early t series mems1.6 ( 17-1-17-1 / cam tbd )
Rover - later t series mems1.9 ( 11 gap 5 gap 12 gap 4 gap )

Ill move onto k series non vvc tomorrow to get the final 2 patterns nailed down you listed earlier in post.
Attachments
T16 scoped with spark marking.
T16 scoped with spark marking.
20210529_011821.jpg (3.43 MiB) Viewed 4370 times
T16 early cam picture.
T16 early cam picture.
20210529_003041.jpg (3.94 MiB) Viewed 4370 times
20210529_003038.jpg
20210529_003038.jpg (3.16 MiB) Viewed 4370 times
By Trevor Getty
#50624
Quick question if I wired wasted spark and paired injectors on my current setup of 17g17g crank. Would that be OK.
It just wouldn't know if it was firing 1 and 4 or 2 and 3?
Just asking as the cam sensors on these are hard to find and it gives me an option if it goes wrong in future. Crank sensors are easily replaced.

Or would I need the 4 gap crank same as later rovers used without the cam?
User avatar
By jonbill
#50628
not sure I understand the question. with wasted spark, speeduino has to know which pair of cylinders (1&4 or 2&3) are approaching TDC. it just doesn't care which cylinder of the pair is on the compression stroke and which is on the exhaust stroke.
Last edited by jonbill on Sat May 29, 2021 9:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
By miker
#50630
The software doesn't care what rover mems you have, it auto detects the crank pattern so the trigger wheel is just rover mems. This is deliberate as I know some kit cars have the flywheels swapped. This way they don't have to worry and blame speeduino for not working. The cam has to be selected so I'll look to add in (well finish, I started mid week) the cam pattern. That you will have to select as I can't auto detect. Which can for which engine we can detail on the wiki.

Ideally sequential on spark for testing. If it's not then we don't know if the wasted spark pluse is first rotation spark 1 or second rotation spark 4. You don't need to start the engine, just crank it with sequential mode selected and track the spark signal.

For actual use, wasted spark & paired injectors is fine but for 17-1 we need a cam signal for spark as their is nothing to tell us if the gap we've encountered if 0 or 180 degrees. This means we could each time you start be fitting 180 degrees out so not run. Fuel is less critical & can ( I believe) squirt at the wrong time and still run.
By Trevor Getty
#50638
Sorry if my question threw you.... it was about changing flywheels and ignition option but you answered it later by saying really you will have the crank and cam as options not hardcoded to which model car it was on. That is perfect...

As for the cam teeth setup, are you going with this after seeing my pictures.
( 5 + gap + gap + 3 +gap + 2 + gap + gap = 15)
17-1 17-1 / 5-1-1 3-1 2-1-1

I am going to setup the ide and download the code here so its ready
I've got a timing light setup now and checked my current running is about 5 to 10 degrees retard at idle.
I will lock out ignition advance or retard while we sort this testing out and check it fires exactly at tdc cylinder 1 and I'll also mark the 90, 180 and 270 locations on the crank for the other sparks.
Ill test it on sequential firing as u mention to make sure it stays synced etc.

Can you make this change in the code and let me know when to update my copy and hopefully I will get to apply this on Monday or Tuesday.. its Bank holiday weekend here so post might be delayed for the speedy.
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