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evo_lucian wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 11:52 pm
I'm just one of those folks who get OCD about these minute details. My WOT NA ve tables have to be sub 100.
Why? I don't mean OCD — we all have a bit of that about some things I think. :lol: I mean, what is the basis for why is it important for you to be under 100?

Most stock NA setups should run well with VEs ≤100. Modified engines and especially with larger injectors or when using low energy-density fuels can often benefit from this type of manipulation. Give yours a quick try sometime, and see if the idle and cruise Lambdas are more stable with the scaled R_f and table, as one indicator. Just do a straight ratio change for a test. It should take about 2 minutes if you're slow :), and unless you have some other weird or incomplete settings in your tune should run reasonably well after the change without tuning.

By rossirvine
Hi Sowts,

Great write up / info so far!

I am just embarking on a similar project - its a mk1 golf, with a 2.0 16v, but will be running some throttle bodies. I am completely new to standalone efi, having persisted with the K-jet for 15 odd years :lol: Is it possible to pinch one of your base tunes to get me started?

Many thanks

By theonewithin
The Speeduino firmware comes with a base tune you can download.

It is not recommended to use another's tune due to differences in setup and options etc that may be used that you are unaware of that then cause difficulties.

Always best to start with the supplied base tune and enter your values from there.
By sowts369
rossirvine wrote:
Sat Jan 04, 2020 1:30 pm
Hi Sowts,

Great write up / info so far!

I am just embarking on a similar project - its a mk1 golf, with a 2.0 16v, but will be running some throttle bodies. I am completely new to standalone efi, having persisted with the K-jet for 15 odd years :lol: Is it possible to pinch one of your base tunes to get me started?

Many thanks

Hi Ross,

I have not been able to try out my own base map yet, so cannot guarantee your engine will run on it. If you are having issues though, feel free to pop over a message or start your own thread.

Good luck with your build, assume you are using the stock 020 box ?
By sowts369
So new years passed, back to work again. Which means less project time :(.

Though I've managed to get a bit of time to write up where I am so far:
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So here is the old KR lump with its Bosch K-jetronic fuel system, surprisingly it looks in a reasonable condition in the picture. But trust me, it wasn't.
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Engine out! Look at that beautiful wiring, I'm glad I've gone down this route now. As so much of the wiring had either broke, lost its insulation or just generally corroded. I also found a kinked brake pipe and a terrible vaccum leak on the brake booster pipe. Not good.

Now that the engine and gearbox is out. I decided to do "while I'm there" jobs, I noticed there was quite a lot of surface rust where the subframe mounts to the chassis. I had concerns that it had rotted all the way through into the chassis rails. So it was a good time to pull it out and clean it all up.

No rust found on the chassis rails thankfully, however the same could not be said for the subframe. Rotted through entirely and had been previously been welded! A strict MOT failure. So when I picked the new engine up, I stopped by a specialist for a good 2nd hand subframe. With the new subframe I cleaned up a few bits of the steering rack before putting it back together. The front chassis brace also looked pretty rusty and tired, so they were also given a quick wire brush and hammerite black job.
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Subframe is now back in, but again I've got more rust to deal with before I can even think about getting the new engine in. Then there is the wiring to deal with...
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The joys of 80s cars, full of crap aftermarket alarms, essence of various different sound installs and some crappy gauges for good measure! This should keep me busy.
By sowts369
]So absolutely massive update to this thread, been incredibly busy both with my daily driver and this car.

After removing the old engine, I scoured the internet to find an engine and loom for all of £350 quids worth!

The engine can out of a seat ibiza 16v, happily it came with the entire cars loom. Which gave me plenty of choice when it came to wire colours. It seemed to be that this engine has leaked oil horrifically for quite some time, with a split oil breather pipe and leaking cam cover gasket. The first thing to do was to remove all the components from both engines that I needed.
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It was noted that a ABF flywheel will not fit onto a 16v 020 gearbox, therefore the flywheels from both engines needed to be removed. VW's from this era used an unusual setup, with the clutch being operated through a rod in the centre of the input spline of the gearbox. This was my first time seeing this first hand and I've since learned quite a lot about it (more on that later...).

I could not bring myself to have a inlet runner that said SEAT on it, so £20 quid later a VW ABF inlet manifold was picked up.
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Engine stripped down as far as I need to, I didn't want to do a full rebuild on this. As this wasn't the goal with this build, just more a bit of fun over winter.
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The gearbox was absolutely disgusting and needed a serious bath, time for a cleaning!
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By this point, I had gotten a bit carried away with cleaning and painting. And always loved the look of painted inlet runners of these engines, so some cleaning and painted later...
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For now I was then waiting on a gasket set to put the engine back together. After I realised I had ordered the incorrect set, turns out there is a early and late ABF engine. With mine being the latter, with some subtle differences to the inlet design and rocker cover.
By sowts369
So now onto wiring - The plan is to use most of the factory MK3 loom, repinned for the MK2 fusebox. Since both the mk2 and mk3 share the same fusebox. It is a case of laying out both of the old engine loom and new, and depinning components from my old loom and popping them into the new loom.

For example, since I am using the older gearbox (020) instead of the o2a box that originally came with this engine the starter motor wiring is different. Some stuff for the MFA (multi function display) also run though the engine loom and needed to be swapped over.

In terms of ECU, I have written up a excel spreadsheet listing the conversation required to go from a ABF ecu pinout to a speeduino pinout. This will make troubleshooting far easier in the future as all the original wire colours have been kept. With the advantage of this loom coming from a SEAT means that I have extra length on the wires. Allowing me to place the ecu behind the glovebox. As in standard cars they're kept inside the wiper scuttle tray which fills with water ?!
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After borrowing some decent crimpers from work I set about terminating the UA4C ECU, what tiny little pins they are! A bit concerned with how poorly they can latch into the connector. But once you get the gist they seem to be okay.
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Some nice hot crimping action!

Anyways, after this my gaskets had turned up which meant I could put my engine back together!
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The excitement had built by this point, so I plugged the loom into the engine, gave it power and ground, plugged the ecu in and jumped the starter with a screwdriver.

And hey presto, we have sync!
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By sowts369
So it was time to get the engine back in where it rightly belongs! I had spent some time cleaning up the chassis rails and fitting a good 2nd hand sub frame. Since the old one was rotted and had been previously welded! :shock: A big no no under our law.
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Again, excitement getting the better of me. So I plugged the loom into the back of the fusebox. and connected the battery, whilst gingerly switching the ignition on as I expect for the fusebox to explode in front of me. Ignition on and no magic white smoke, so it was onto connecting the ecu. After sorting some teething issues it was ready to crank and see if it'll fire up.

Cranking over, we have sync, we have spark, but nothing. The timing offset I was certain would be wrong, but I was interested if it would atleast fart or backfire, but it did nothing. I had no idea when this engine last ran, and I was suspecting the injectors could be stuck shut. Adjusting the fuelling calibration made no difference, which upon pulling all 4 plugs they were dry, wiring checked out okay which made me pull the injectors. I am fortunate at work to have a injector tester and cleaning machine. So might as well.
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Unusual style of injectors here, side feeds,not came across these in person before. Anyways off to work for some testing! Happily all of them sprung back into life with some assistance from a tappy tappy device, noting that 2 were down compared to the rest and one was dripping during its leak off test. Time to fire them into the cleaner:
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After a bit of cleaning they all came up good enough, within 5% of each other in the end. in the end they all tested at 220cc, I thought was a bit odd, as I had been told they were 177cc from factory.

Injectors fired back in, timing offset set, it was ready to see if it this thing was going to run. It was also a bit of a sanity check to confirm that the 2nd hand engine I had bought wasn't a dog, there is no exhaust or cooling system on at this point, so only ran for a very short period. A few tweaks to fueling and bingo! It started!

I should point out at this point, and is something to be very aware of is that for any engine you are attempting to start for the very first time is to set a low rev limit (something around 3k). As encase when it does fire up and starts to bounce off its 7000 rpm rev limiter from stone cold :lol: . In this case I was glad one was in place as it literally went straight to it, I realised afterwards I had not capped off some ports in the inlet manifold. But it was confirmed proof that the engine seems alright and I could now progress to a more permanent install. And get it to a stage where I can get it up to temp and ticking over nicely.

Exhaust back in, lambda fitted, cooling system plumbed up. a few other niggles and stuff. Now ready for a proper fire up and see what happens.

Got it to crack up and started dialling a rough tune for idle and light load. Just so I could a close eye on the engine as it gets up to temperature and check for any leaks etc. All good, fan kicking in and out as usual. Time for a video with a bit of good old revs :P

As well as one just ticking over nicely.
Seems happy! I then attempted to get the ISV valve working properly, as for the moment I have the throttle wound open quite a bit. Hopefully then get it into a full closed loop setup which would be nice.

So yes all in all good progress so far! Got to make up a relay coil to drive the tacho it seems also. As even on a 12v square wave aint enough to run it.


By sowts369
Hi All,

So been doing as much as a I can whilst lockdown is going ahead. After diagnosing a faulty ignition switch causing cold start issues it seems to be running rather well.

2 things of query:

Is it possible to have a idle duty PWM vs vbat ? The Bosch 2 wire idle valve runs at quite a high frequency and a very narrow range (8 to 12% PWM) this is with a diode fitted. I have tried to setup a closed loop PWM but I feel its too sensitive for the PID control. Even with tiny PID valves. I can get the valve to work reliably in open loop at 11% cold then 9% warm, though once I place a load onto the alternator (lights, wipers and heater) the idle drops to 700rpm, runs far richer (0.97 to 0.85 - adjust of injector vbat compensation doesn't fix this). Whilst its under this electrical load, if I increase the PWM it will pick its idle back up nicely. So what I'm after is a graph for battery voltage on the X axis and PWM compesation on the Y.

Does anyone have any starting values for PID closed loop lambda control, I don't mind spending the time working it out as I understand its different all types of exhaust systems, engines characteristics etc. But if anyone has any values for a joe blogs NA 4cyl that'll be great. Saves me trying some every time I go to the shops and have it run like poo if the system becomes unstable :lol: .

Stay safe everyone!
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