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#25158
I'm new to the Speeduino family.....well still looking on from the outside to be precise. I'm considering adding a management system to my old Vauxhall 2300cc slant 4 engined Firenza. My car is built using period parts and looks like it could have been built in the 1970's or 80's and I want to keep any modifications as subtle as possible. I've been planning this for a few years so have a good idea of what way I want to proceed and I've gathered together some of the hardware.

I will be using a single throttle body with an alloy plenum style manifold, adapted from an MGF, complete with MAP sensor, a Bosch Hall effect distributor with a Bosch '008' type (Intermotor 150000) ignition amp and matching Bosch coil.

My question is what are the most suitable Speeduino bits I need to buy to make this all work? I will be using the original MG style MAP sensor rather than a board mounted one.
Attachments
Engine bay.jpg
Engine bay.jpg (484.58 KiB) Viewed 3443 times
side.jpg
side.jpg (231.24 KiB) Viewed 3443 times
#25159
Hi,
Love your car :-)

Now I would say if it were me I would be looking to make the conversion even more discreet than even the plans you have laid out.
Distributor, amp and coil , that's all good stuff.
But manifold.... I think you should look into making some bodies using old carbs( are they Stromberg or su?). Mount the injectors underside so they can't be seen , keep the original airbox. A real stealth look 8-)

As far as actual speeduino type , a vo4 or even a NO2C would do you just fine.
#25160
Yeah, I had looked at the Patton Engineering Stromberg carb conversions to add injectors but they are expensive and the Strombergs don't flow enough to provide any more than about 140 BHP. I have an original Blydenstien big valve head and rally camshaft which on Dellortos should make 180 BHP (I have the 48 Dellortos too) so want to get near that figure with management and a fairly restrained look.

Vauxhall did fit a few of these engines with mechanical injection and plenum manifolds back in the late 70's as prototypes. My manifold and intake design will look quite like those engines with a top mounted fuel rail added.

Better not get too off topic though so I'm hoping Jama will come up with the suggestions for a bespoke kit of parts and an idea of budget.
#25169
1972nail wrote:
Mon Mar 26, 2018 7:38 pm
I have an original Blydenstien big valve head and rally camshaft which on Dellortos should make 180 BHP (I have the 48 Dellortos too) so want to get near that figure with management and a fairly restrained look.
They do go very well with that set up, and its still pulls well from low down too. The manifold and twin 48mm throttle bodies would be the way to go to get that sort of power.
That's a nice tidy looking Firenza, got a mini 'Big Bertha' look about it.
#25170
1972nail wrote:
Mon Mar 26, 2018 7:38 pm
Yeah, I had looked at the Patton Engineering Stromberg carb conversions to add injectors but they are expensive and the Strombergs don't flow enough to provide any more than about 140 BHP. I have an original Blydenstien big valve head and rally camshaft which on Dellortos should make 180 BHP (I have the 48 Dellortos too) so want to get near that figure with management and a fairly restrained look.

Vauxhall did fit a few of these engines with mechanical injection and plenum manifolds back in the late 70's as prototypes. My manifold and intake design will look quite like those engines with a top mounted fuel rail added.

Better not get too off topic though so I'm hoping Jama will come up with the suggestions for a bespoke kit of parts and an idea of budget.
Hello.

That is a lovely car, and I'll be happy to help get you set up with what you need.

When you say you'll be using a "single throttle body", is that a single butterfly with an injector per cylinder still?
Do you know what type of signal your "Bosch Hall effect distributor " will give out, is it just a pulse per ignition event? and does the distributor apply any sort of ignition advance (mechanical or vacuum)?

Using an external MAP sensor is no issue as long as it is gives out a 0-5v linear reading; which most do.

Like Dazq said a NO2C would likely be ideal for your install.
It is an alternative speeduino design with fewer channels but is nice and compact.

Let me know about the points above and we can nail down what you would like.
If we do that soon you might be able to get it all in time for the long bank holiday :)

Thanks
James.
#25171
Yes, it'll be a single 48mm body with one injector per cylinder. I'm not sure of the output from the distributor Hall sensor but it is the same sensor as fitted to 1980's VW Golfs, Vauxhall Astras etc. The sensor is described as an 'Intermotor 14006 ignition pulse sensor' on some websites. The distributor has both mechanical and vacuum advance but both will be locked down.

My main objective for this year's project is to get the ignition under control as the advance curve of the distributor is way off, it's one from a low compression Bedford CF van with a 42 deg mechanical advance at about 3200 rpm plus 6 deg vacuum. At the minute I need to run with virtually no static advance to get decent mid range and top end power.

As I say, get the ignition under control this year while fabricating the injection bits to fit next year......or the year after..... It took me 35 years to build the car :lol:

Can I run sequential injection with only 2 injection channels on the NO2C? I'm not sure if batch injection of will work efficiently enough as I will be mounting the injectors quite far from the valves.

My MAP sensor will be the standard MGF 4 wire sensor which I believe gives out a 5V signal but I'm not sure. It's the one in the picture below.
Attachments
MGF MAP sensor.jpg
MGF MAP sensor.jpg (87.09 KiB) Viewed 3401 times
Last edited by 1972nail on Tue Mar 27, 2018 9:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
#25172
JHolland wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 7:43 am
They do go very well with that set up, and its still pulls well from low down too. The manifold and twin 48mm throttle bodies would be the way to go to get that sort of power..
I think twin 48mm 'Jenvey' type bodies will be too big, giving very little control over progression at small throttle openings. On sidedraught carbs a 38mm choke is all that these engines need to get over 200 BHP. I'm going for a single 48mm body and a plenum manifold to keep good driveability and just to be different.......there is also a low budget agenda as well. A single 48mm on a plenum will flow enough air for over 400BHP... that should be enough. ;)
#25174
1972nail wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 9:20 am
Yes, it'll be a single 48mm body with one injector per cylinder. I'm not sure of the output from the distributor Hall sensor but it is the same sensor as fitted to 1980's VW Golfs, Vauxhall Astras etc. The sensor is described as an 'Intermotor 14006 ignition pulse sensor' on some websites. The distributor has both mechanical and vacuum advance but both will be locked down.

My main objective for this year's project is to get the ignition under control as the advance curve of the distributor is way off, it's one from a low compression Bedford CF van with a 42 deg mechanical advance at about 3200 rpm plus 6 deg vacuum. At the minute I need to run with virtually no static advance to get decent mid range and top end power.

As I say, get the ignition under control this year while fabricating the injection bits to fit next year......or the year after..... It took me 35 years to build the car :lol:

Can I run sequential injection with only 2 injection channels on the NO2C? I'm not sure if batch injection of will work efficiently enough as I will be mounting the injectors quite far from the valves.

My MAP sensor will be the standard MGF 4 wire sensor which I believe gives out a 5V signal but I'm not sure. It's the one in the picture below.
Firstly we will need to establish the trigger signal from the distributor.
I feel it will likely be "basic distributor" which is a pulse for every ignition event.
See here: https://speeduino.com/wiki/index.php/Basic_Distributor

You would not be able to run sequential injection with this type of signal due to the signal not providing any reference of what degrees the engine is currently at.
A way around this that some people on here have done is to get a custom distributor wheel made up that will give a signal that can support this whilst looking stock.
Take a look here.
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=1682

That aside for now, if you lock off your distributor and keep the rotor arm in there you should be able to get speeduino running the ignition side if things without too much hassle.

I had a look at that MAP, there should be no issue using that at all.

On a side note.
I'd advise starting a thread in user projects: viewforum.php?f=19
Posting the steps you would like to progress this in.
There might be someone in there who would have a better strategy than just me here in my thread.
Then once we have gotten down what you need to get you running can sort out an order.

Thanks
James.
#25176
Thanks James for your reply. I think a build thread would be an idea. I've done a bit more reading and probably semi-sequential injection would be the way to go and the 2 channels of the NO2C would be OK but that limits my future options, so I think the 0.4 board that you provide will be the best option.
#25178
1972nail wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 1:57 pm
Thanks James for your reply. I think a build thread would be an idea. I've done a bit more reading and probably semi-sequential injection would be the way to go and the 2 channels of the NO2C would be OK but that limits my future options, so I think the 0.4 board that you provide will be the best option.
That's not a bad shout, better to have more functionality if you might use it later.
Also I have been thinking about your application.
I believe what you will want to do is connect the hall signal straight from the locked off distributor to the speeduino.
The ignition output from the speeduino will then go through an ignition driver (I'll see if I can find out if yours will work in this way) which will drive the coil.
You will wire the distributor HT leads as normal.

Would you be after a speeduino kit or assembled board ?

James.
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