Anything else whatsoever... Keep it clean though.
#20962
Yachtsman wrote:


It is well known that ethanol engines start poorly in the cold it isn't something I think
This is true, because ethanol does not like to vaporize well
Injection has been found to improve starting of engines even petrol engines on cold mornings.
easier starting yes, but not by improving vaporization, I.E. the ethanol not starting in the cold problem still exists...
#20965
RichCreations wrote: Thu Aug 31, 2017 5:50 pm
Yachtsman wrote:


It is well known that ethanol engines start poorly in the cold it isn't something I think
This is true, because ethanol does not like to vaporize well
Injection has been found to improve starting of engines even petrol engines on cold mornings.
easier starting yes, but not by improving vaporization, I.E. the ethanol not starting in the cold problem still exists...
You are I will accept sidestepping a characteristic of ethanol , the same thing happens to Petrol engines colder mornings perhaps, but it still happens.
Petrol or ethanol vaporise in the cylinder due to the compression warming the charge up, an atomised fuel vaporizes much easier the droplets have more surface area
If you increase the compression to what is optima for ethanol, the ethanol vaporizes in the cylinder and the poor starting just goes away you can't change innate characteristics that's one as it happens that circle race drivers like. Petrol injection cars start much better than carburettor cars, the only injection car I've had was a Saab EMS that started brilliantly in the winter.
#20966
Yachtsman wrote:
"Petrol or ethanol vaporise in the cylinder due to the compression warming the charge up, an atomised fuel vaporizes much easier the droplets have more surface area
If you increase the compression to what is optima for ethanol, the ethanol vaporizes in the cylinder and the poor starting just goes away you can't change innate characteristics that's one as it happens that circle race drivers like."

If I remember correctly, liquids vaporise under low pressure and vapors condense under high pressure on cold surfaces.
The problem I've seen with alcohols in cold weather is related to there excess water production without any energy produced. They fire once, and the water vapor condenses on the cold plug. Game over until you remove it and dry it out.
#20969
Macs wrote: Thu Aug 31, 2017 10:30 pm If I remember correctly, liquids vaporise under low pressure and vapors condense under high pressure on cold surfaces.
The problem I've seen with alcohols in cold weather is related to there excess water production without any energy produced. They fire once, and the water vapor condenses on the cold plug. Game over until you remove it and dry it out.
Well, that's partly right, the high compression helps with scavenging and heating any water vapour to the point it's dry steam. Once the engine fires you've got a lot of energy from then on no worries. (I read that high compression ethanol engines are quite happy running and starting with 5% water in the fuel, but that I want to test).


Note: That evidence is anecdotal and from humid environments when dry ethanol would be impossible
#20970
Yachtsman wrote:
"Well, that's partly right, the high compression helps with scavenging and heating any water vapour to the point it's dry steam. Once the engine fires you've got a lot of energy from then on no worries. (I read that high compression ethanol engines are quite happy running and starting with 5% water in the fuel, but that I want to test)."

Steam will always condense on a cold surface of the head. The steam is produce from the first firing of the alcohol. The excess steam comes from the useless oxygen atom in the Ethanol, not from your 5% water in the fuel. You can light some Ethanol on a cold aluminum plate in the winter, and it will extinguish itself with it's own water vapor.
#20971
Macs wrote: Fri Sep 01, 2017 8:37 am
Steam will always condense on a cold surface of the head. The steam is produce from the first firing of the alcohol. The excess steam comes from the useless oxygen atom in the Ethanol, not from your 5% water in the fuel. You can light some Ethanol on a cold aluminum plate in the winter, and it will extinguish itself with it's own water vapor.
The water vapour is really hot super-heated steam (plasma), Carbon, Nitrogen, oxygen (and some Noble gases whatever is in the air) and expands pushing the piston down, then out of the valve, then the inlet valve opens then in the exhaust manifold if the inside surface is plated with a catalyst* the tail pipe will only expel CO2 and steam.

* to be finalized

The ethanol on the flat plate isn't in a hurricane of plasma where there's no molecules Just atoms flying around in a frenzy trying to form stable molecules with an energy of the original fuel less the power of the engine less whatever losses the engine has.

So in conclusion : If a properly compression optimised dedicated ethanol engine could do as good or better (15%)mileage as petrol/Gasoline while making the better power we know it can do( using 20the Century technology).
While fixing climate change because it's carbon negative not carbon positive like Petrol/Gasoline why wouldn't we?
#20973
Yachtsman wrote:
"The water vapour is really hot super-heated steam (plasma), Carbon, Nitrogen, oxygen (and some Noble gases whatever is in the air) and expands pushing the piston down, then out of the valve, then the inlet valve opens then in the exhaust manifold if the inside surface is plated with a catalyst* the tail pipe will only expel CO2 and steam."

Steam is not plasma. It is the greenhouse gas that controls our weather and climate. It is the driving force for tornadoes and hurricanes. Ethanol just dumps 33% more of it into the atmosphere as wasted heat.

Yachtsman wrote:
"The ethanol on the flat plate isn't in a hurricane of plasma where there's no molecules Just atoms flying around in a frenzy trying to form stable molecules with an energy of the original fuel less the power of the engine less whatever losses the engine has."

Your "hurricane of plasma" is the flame. The energy is released by the formation of the combustion products.
The total energy released is the energy from the combustion products minus the energy needed to disassemble the fuel into it's component atoms. This is why the bound Oxygen in Ethanol is an energy loss. Compare Ethanol to Ethane. Both have the same number of Carbon and Hydrogen atoms. The only difference is the extra Oxygen bound in Ethanol. Ethane releases 1559.3 kJ/mol of energy during combustion. Ethanol releases 1367.3 kJ/mol during combustion. By adding one Oxygen, the energy output of the fuel has been reduced by 192.4 kJ/mol or slightly more than 12% loss.
Ethanol extinguishes itself because it absorbs it's own water vapor. When the concentration becomes high enough, the Ethanol can't produce enough heat to vaporize itself.

Yachtsman wrote:
"So in conclusion : If a properly compression optimised dedicated ethanol engine could do as good or better (15%)mileage as petrol/Gasoline while making the better power we know it can do( using 20the Century technology).
While fixing climate change because it's carbon negative not carbon positive like Petrol/Gasoline why wouldn't we?"

The whole "climate change due to CO2" idea is a scam. Even the scientist that proposed it in the first place believed it was wrong after studying it. Politicians love it because you can spend billions, and collect billions more dollars without affecting the amount of CO2 one iota. CO2 is an indicator of life. If by some huge effort we could cut it in half, to 200ppm, we would all die.
#20992
Firstly I'd like to appolagies I'm using a tablet and androids assistive tech is not very good.


Mac you're talking crap! Climate change is really happening, some of it is manmade and th3 smaller bit is natural. Superheated Steam is plasma . The oxygen in alcohol's does have an effect it makes the CO into CO2 and reduced NOx because of those reactions you get more power. That's one of the reason's 4acers use it. CO2 is recycled if you don't understand ask a grown up. People who understand climate change know you're not trying to reduce the amount of CO2 you need to change it's footprint. Are you out of the office at the weekend is that why you answer 9 to 5?
#21014
david.white wrote: Sun Sep 03, 2017 1:11 pm Firstly I'd like to appolagies I'm using a tablet and androids assistive tech is not very good.


Mac you're talking crap! Climate change is really happening, some of it is manmade and th3 smaller bit is natural. Superheated Steam is plasma . The oxygen in alcohol's does have an effect it makes the CO into CO2 and reduced NOx because of those reactions you get more power. That's one of the reason's 4acers use it. CO2 is recycled if you don't understand ask a grown up. People who understand climate change know you're not trying to reduce the amount of CO2 you need to change it's footprint. Are you out of the office at the weekend is that why you answer 9 to 5?
Admins, does he really need multiple active accounts?
#21019
RichCreations wrote: Mon Sep 04, 2017 10:04 pm
david.white wrote: Sun Sep 03, 2017 1:11 pm Firstly I'd like to appolagies I'm using a tablet and androids assistive tech is not very good.


Mac you're talking crap! Climate change is really happening, some of it is manmade and th3 smaller bit is natural. Superheated Steam is plasma . The oxygen in alcohol's does have an effect it makes the CO into CO2 and reduced NOx because of those reactions you get more power. That's one of the reason's 4acers use it. CO2 is recycled if you don't understand ask a grown up. People who understand climate change know you're not trying to reduce the amount of CO2 you need to change it's footprint. Are you out of the office at the weekend is that why you answer 9 to 5?
Admins, does he really need multiple active accounts?
Didn't you read my first line I'm using a tablet. My Linux PC is u/s Im waiting to 4 parts.
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