Anything else whatsoever... Keep it clean though.
#20873
[quote=Macs post_id=20842 time=1503523121 user_id=1205]
"Depending on how long of a timeline we're looking at, airliners could go electric as well."

It would be interesting to see four 50.000 HP electric motors, and the battery that powers them take off.

Yachtsman responds
An electric motor is only carbon neutral, but Jet engines run on bio-diesel with no change at all, some companies even use it now. Some bio-diesel is more energy dense than paraffin/kerosene. It can be made from algae.
#20876
Yachtsman wrote: Sat Aug 26, 2017 9:16 am Jet engines run on bio-diesel with no change at all
as long as no Nitrile based rubber is used as it will shrink. sure new engines may use Viton based rubber to avoid this problem
some companies even use it now.
despite all the downsides, like oxidizing/gelling, or growing bacteria and funghi. there is still a lot of development needed.
It can be made from algae.
and tallow, other plant oils, waste oil, etc
#20907
Yachtsman wrote:
"Jet engines run on bio-diesel with no change at all, some companies even use it now."

I would think that a great deal of testing would have to be done before risking passengers lives by using bio-fuels.
Aircraft accidents get investigated. Therefore engine failures due to bio-fuels can not be passed off as anecdotal evidence.
#20909
Macs wrote: Sun Aug 27, 2017 6:48 pm Yachtsman wrote:
"Jet engines run on bio-diesel with no change at all, some companies even use it now."

I would think that a great deal of testing would have to be done before risking passengers lives by using bio-fuels.
Aircraft accidents get investigated. Therefore engine failures due to bio-fuels can not be passed off as anecdotal evidence.
Despite his claims that some are using it now, no passenger flights are... There is some bio-based jet-A replacements in the early phases of development, but thats about it... And no, it is not "bio-diesel" it is bio-Jet-A, specially formulated to run in jet engines, with the same qualities as Jet-A (and has a ways to go before we see it in the average fuel truck).

Aircraft fuels are a lot different then road fuels, in that they must adhere to a more stringent spec. Road fuels can vary in composition quite a bit, not so for aircraft, one batch should be the same as another.
#20933
Jet engines can run on many things paraffin or diesel is just two. Ever heard of the US Secretary of Defences pledge to be off the grid by 2020. Combat jets performance is better on Bio-fuel too because it's not a random mix of molecules, it might not be long before all Military jets run on Bio-fuels. Bio-fuels are 100% molecularly identical not like fuel made from crude oil. The British Government used to prove duty evasion if a road vehicle was using bio-diesel because it was too pure.
http://cen.acs.org/articles/94/i37/boar ... light.html
All fossil fuels are biological in nature they just haven't had the benefit of human intelligence in there manufacture.
#20944
Yachtsman wrote:
"Jet engines can run on many things paraffin or diesel is just two."

I am well aware that jet engines can be run on many fuels with varying success, I have one in the garage.
Years ago when they were testing ethanol blends here, I was knocked out of the air three times. Two of those were engine failures and the third was a fuel system failure. There were also two general aviation crashes, both fatal, caused by ethanol in the fuel. I would hate to see that repeated again.

Yachtsman also wrote:
"All fossil fuels are biological in nature they just haven't had the benefit of human intelligence in there manufacture."

We could synthesize gasoline from it's component parts, but most people are smart enough to know that it takes more energy to create fuel than the energy released when it is burned. This makes it inefficient and only sustainable if you have an unlimited source of outside energy to waste. It's hard to determine if Ethanol falls into this category. I guess the true test would be to run one plant where all energy inputs, from field to pump had to be supplied by Ethanol from the plant.
#20947
Macs wrote: Wed Aug 30, 2017 7:34 am Yachtsman wrote:
"Jet engines can run on many things paraffin or diesel is just two."

I am well aware that jet engines can be run on many fuels with varying success, I have one in the garage.
Years ago when they were testing ethanol blends here, I was knocked out of the air three times. Two of those were engine failures and the third was a fuel system failure. There were also two general aviation crashes, both fatal, caused by ethanol in the fuel. I would hate to see that repeated again.

Yachtsman also wrote:
"All fossil fuels are biological in nature they just haven't had the benefit of human intelligence in there manufacture."

We could synthesize gasoline from it's component parts, but most people are smart enough to know that it takes more energy to create fuel than the energy released when it is burned. This makes it inefficient and only sustainable if you have an unlimited source of outside energy to waste. It's hard to determine if Ethanol falls into this category. I guess the true test would be to run one plant where all energy inputs, from field to pump had to be supplied by Ethanol from the plant.
Perhaps a Caribbean island that has lots of old sugar plantations on it would be a good place to test out that idea. I Volunteer to oversee such a test. I could go for retirement to the Caribbean!!! The Caribbean is warm enough that that ethanol's lack of volatility is less of a problem too.
Ethanol would never be viable on a engine without injection and an ECU so I have much to thank Josh for.
Jet engines run on many things, but ethanol and high octane fuels wasn't what Sir Frank Whittle had in mind when he invented it to run on a cheap fuel not high octane Avgas, after all he was an RAF officer and it was the 30's. The engine type (the Goblin is one will run on bio-diesel. Axial flow ones have a problem).

Compression ignited engines (diesel) run on many things too, in fact Herr Rudolf Diesel went to America to promote his engines that could be fuelled by crops grown on the farm squeezed for SVO or to make bio-diesel his engine has better low rev grunt) just after prohibition when making ethanol to fuel a petrol tractor was illegal.
#20954
Yachtsman wrote:

Ethanol would never be viable on a engine without injection and an ECU so I have much to thank Josh for.
I am not sure where you get this idea from, that having injection, or an ecu makes any difference, the engine won't know the difference... But most things you "think" are false anyway...

For that matter, carbs do a bit better job atomizing fuel then injectors, which may make starting easier...

There are thousands of race cars running methanol through carbs right now...
#20961
RichCreations wrote: Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:48 am
Yachtsman wrote:

Ethanol would never be viable on a engine without injection and an ECU so I have much to thank Josh for.
I am not sure where you get this idea from, that having injection, or an ecu makes any difference, the engine won't know the difference... But most things you "think" are false anyway...

It is well known that ethanol engines start poorly in the cold it isn't something I think
Injection has been found to improve starting of engines even petrol engines on cold mornings.
Any engine will start poorly if it's compression isn't suited to it's fuel. I suppose you don't strictly need an ECU, but exact control of the fuelling is useful. If an engine is a pig to start it isn't going to get popular that's obvious.
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