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#31175
in fabbing a bracket for the crankshaft sensor, to go on my stand-alone 4A084 motor, I am asking to see if I got this figured out somewhat correctly.

from what i am finding out the sensor needs to be mounted 90 degrees before the missing tooth.
with the style of bracket that i am making it should give a an option to move the sensor up to 20 degrees if needed.
in the trigger set up module. it states that the trigger angle is the angle ATDC when tooth #1 passes the primary sensor..
from what i am understanding from this, the #1 tooth will be passing the sensor at 130 degrees ATDC.
am i correct in this thinking?

then i get to move on to the spark plug settings
from what i understand, with the motor timing set to fire at 28 BTDC.
I set both the Cranking advance & fixed angle to 28,




below are pictures of the base bracket i will be making, using a T-slot, so the sensor can be adjusted. along with the trigger tooth wheel on a degree chart. along with the trigger wheel placed on a degree wheel to help with trying to understand this setup.
Attachments
10  no. 1 tooth passing sensor angle.JPG
trigger wheel, when #1 tooth passes sensor
10 no. 1 tooth passing sensor angle.JPG (277.98 KiB) Viewed 2328 times
9 tigger wheel at TDC.JPG
trigger wheel at TDC
9 tigger wheel at TDC.JPG (240.48 KiB) Viewed 2328 times
07 final location .JPG
crankshaft sensor bracket
07 final location .JPG (251.11 KiB) Viewed 2328 times
#31181
Guessing your reading specs for MS1?

Speeduino you can have the sensor where ever you want. It doesn't matter. At all.

Mount it wherever is easiest.

The wiki shoes how to estimate trigger angle.

Obviously confirm with timing light to make sure it is 100%

Don't mount sensor to a movable mount. You want it to be as rigid as possible.
#31191
The motor turns clockwise when looking at the front of it,
So then the numbers on the teeth are backwards? I had seen where one had numbered the teeth, forgot to think which direction his motor turned,
Every time I read wiki, so many of the concepts seem so simple, then I start looking at some of the other systems out there, And then it starts getting confusing.
I was thinking that when the#1 cylinder was at TDC the sensor needed to be reading the leading edge of a tooth. And that is why I was designing the plate, so I could line it up, simpler. Then lock it down tight.
, the plate will be made out of 1/2" aluminum, and the block that will hold the sensor would be 1.5 wide 1.25 thick and stand almost 2 inches tall. This is still in the design faze.
Attachments
IMG_20181130_200510.jpg
Looking at the front, the motor turns clockwi
IMG_20181130_200510.jpg (1.43 MiB) Viewed 2303 times
Last edited by Barthoward54 on Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
#31192
Barthoward54 wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:26 am
Every time I read wiki, so many of the concepts seem so simple, then I start looking at some of the other systems out there, And then it starts getting confusing.
Seriously. Even knowing the concepts, switching concepts hurts my brain and it's so easy to get them mixed-up. For Speeduino, it can be simplified to this level:

Throw the parts on the engine. Set the crank at top center of cylinder #1. Make a mark on the tooth under the sensor. Rotate the crank until you see the first tooth after the missing tooth gap passes under the sensor. Mark that tooth. How many degrees between the two marks? That is your Trigger Angle setting.

Fire it up and verify exact setting with your timing light. Done. 8-)

David
#31207
thanks for taking the time to get me straightened out, on this simple concept.
for augments sake, I thought I would include a couple of pictures of the degree wheel as before, BUT with the trigger wheel teeth number for the clockwise rotation.. seeing it this way makes perfect sense. as you stated the sensor does not need to be at an certain position, in relation to the trigger wheel. (like what i was thinking)
the one picture is of the trigger wheel at TDC, and the next one is when the #1 tooth leading edge passes the sensor. sometimes I get hung up on the simplest of things...
Attachments
11 correct cw rotation for trigger wheel.JPG
11 correct cw rotation for trigger wheel.JPG (245.75 KiB) Viewed 2274 times
12 tooth no. 1 passing crank sensor.JPG
12 tooth no. 1 passing crank sensor.JPG (260.31 KiB) Viewed 2274 times
#34568
I am coming up on a few more questions. concerning the CHT temperature settings.
on this air-cooled motor my idea was to use a CHT sender that goes under the spark plug. I have purchased a few senders from Falcon Gauge # CP-018,
https://www.falcongauge.com/product_Det ... llclass=11

if the CP-018 will not work, I found a honeywell themistor that will work and is in the temp range for the motor
Honeywell # 120-102EAJ-Q01,
with this thermistor, I would epoxy it to the cylinder head.
https://www.arrow.com/en/products/120-1 ... gLYx_D_BwE


so the main question at the moment ..
last night when I started to enter in the information, into the tunerstudio on the calibrate themistor page. I have a couple of questions on how to insert data for a an item that is not listed, can i enter in data on just the 3 data points, or do i need to create a file? if I do need to create a file could would someone be able to give me some insight on how the format should be? And how would a person find the Bias Resistor Value (OHMS) ?



I found this post from a couple of years ago, that gives some information between using a themocouple and a thermistor, I am thinking that this information has not changed.


Most CHT sensors are thermocouple type, and require a conversion module/controller between them and Speeduino. :( So instead, I suggest you just make your own, and much less expensive also. :D Using a thermistor instead of a thermocouple, you can connect directly to Speeduino just like a CLT, and in-fact a CLT element (NTC thermistor) from a CLT can work well. An example is below, made from a GM temperature-curve thermistor, and encased in 3M Industrial tape to insulate it and adhere it to the head at the base of a fin, or directly on the outside of the chamber surface if there's room. Any reasonably-ranged thermistor should work, including the cheap 10k types online. Another member (Frank1380) made his with a thermistor inside a heavy copper cable lug, so it can bolt to the head. Do what makes you happy, and will read the head temperature accurately, so you can use the data for various tuning information CHTs can give.
8-)
David

Using a GM-curve as a peel 'n stick CHT:
Image

Frank1380's version of a CHT thermistor setup:
Image
Attachments
honeywell themistor.PNG
honeywell themistor.PNG (83.19 KiB) Viewed 1994 times
calibrate themistor tables.PNG
calibrate themistor tables.PNG (37.79 KiB) Viewed 1994 times
User avatar
By PSIG
#34571
Barthoward54 wrote:
Thu May 09, 2019 5:13 pm
… I found this post from a couple of years ago, that gives some information between using a themocouple and a thermistor, I am thinking that this information has not changed. …
That specific info has not changed, however it is not the only info. ;) In other threads you'll find the use of K-thermocouples, which benefit from greater range, and also linear calibration (simple 2 or 3-point). However, these require an inexpensive amplifier be added between the thermocouple and Speeduino, such as the AD8495, and removal of the bias resistor. Simple and effective.

Trivia: The CHT gauges you linked are the same concept. A K-thermocouple, feeding a amplifier chip, powering a simple volt-meter gauge with a custom faceplate in degrees. ;)

So, you have a couple choices (ring thermocouple or thermistor) and you can take your pick for whatever reasons suit you. For the thermistor calibration, look-up the bias resistor value for the board you are using (in the Hardware folder of your Speeduino download), or ask the supplier, or measure the one on your board with an ohm-meter.

David
#34574
i never thought of searching the K- thermocouples , in this forum. came across a thread you posted a couple of years ago
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=816&start=50&hilit=K+thermocouples
and you covered a lot of information. trying to digest it at the moment. might take a day or two.
at the moment I am more inclined to go with the Honeywell Themistor. it is a lot simpler for me at the moment.
still need to do a little more digging, and find out how to link 2 themistors to tunerstudio.

the CHT's that I have are the J-type. The Adafruit MAX31856 Universal Amplifier https://www.adafruit.com/product/3263
covers any K, J, N, R, S, T, E, or B types of thermocouplers. but setting up or changing the code is just a little beyond my knowledge at the moment. If it is even possible to make it work with the Speeduino,
I am enjoying the journey, even if sometimes I am taking a step back, due to my lack of planning and knowledge at the time.
thanks again for all your insight and patients with these questions.
Attachments
wiring for max31856.PNG
wiring for max31856.PNG (43.45 KiB) Viewed 1978 times
adafruit max31856 amplifier.PNG
adafruit max31856 amplifier.PNG (258.85 KiB) Viewed 1978 times
#34646
Finally put the motor on a bench and starting to put things together, was trying to find some input on how to connect the some 5 volt power and a volt meter to find the trigger angle. finally through some trial and error, I found that I could read the voltage change by wiring it up this way. I have a PowerProbe with a 5 volt adapter. so applying 5 volts was simple.
and with the 3 wires , A . input power, B. signal out. & C. ground. coming off the gear tooth sensor.
I connected the power probe and one leg of the multi meter to the "A. input power", the other leg of the multi meter to "B. signal out" & the "C.ground wire went to ground. with this set up I was able to see the voltage rise and fall from 5 volts to 0 volts, as it passed each tooth.
Attachments
5 setting up to find trigger angle.jpg
5 setting up to find trigger angle.jpg (292.46 KiB) Viewed 1931 times
4 wiring scematic.jpg
4 wiring scematic.jpg (335.34 KiB) Viewed 1931 times
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